Which is best?

[dinger]

Peeps..i appologise if this has already been covered.

I am looking to buy a decent camera( on a not so decent budget ) i have been advised to go for either a
Nikon D40,
Canon EOS 400D or
Olympus E-400.

I am a complete photography beginner but apparently i have the "knack" for seeing a good pic...whatever that means

I would like it for wildlife photography aswell as the obligatory childrens party and Landy meet.
Any advise? please

[GuyF]

Hi,
I'm basically the same as you (except I recently bought a set-up). I went with the Canon 400D because it was cheaper than the Nikon D70s (although I'm not sure about the Nikon D40, and also I was impressed with the 10 megapixels which the camera has. The 400D cost me under £500, I think about £470 which I thought was pretty good. As for lenses I can't really advise you because I'm a beginner and don't know much at all about lenses. Basically, what I do understand is that Macro lens are for real close ups of insects and other small things, and should also be alright for family photos, while if you are interested in birds and other creatures that might be a bit further away then tele-photo zoom lenses are very useful.
There are so many photography experts on this site so you will get some great advice, I started one of these threads when I was about to get my camera and it was really useful.
Guy

[HowlinWolf]

The Nikon (but I'm biased...like everyone else will be).
The thing is, go to a store where you can handle various models an choose what suits you. Base this decision on what you want to shoot, and you will be in the ball-park.

HW

[nightshade]

Read the previous posts in the photo forum I would go for the older now cheaper models
Nikon D50,D70s, Canon 350d all have good facilities buy body only
Save your money for the lenses (the Nikon 18-70 is superb as fitted to the D70s)
Sigma 150 or 105 macro,Tamron 90 macro
Sigma 70-300 APO Dg £139 and so on and so forth

[steveo]

Originally Posted by dinger

i have been advised to go for either a
Nikon D40,
Canon EOS 400D or
Olympus E-400.

out of those in your list i would go for the canon. however you may want to consider saving up a bit more and going for a Nikon D50/70/80.

[HowlinWolf]

Originally Posted by dinger

I am a complete photography beginner but apparently i have the "knack" for seeing a good pic...whatever that means

dinger, it's what you say in paragraph 3 thats worth more than any camera brand you may invest in. Without the ability to 'see' a good image, no amount of exotic equipment will get you better images, so bear this in mind. Yes, the more expensive the camera, the easier it becomes to get worthwhile images, what with auto focus and modern metering systems being what they are. But ultimately, it's the person behind the camera, and what they point it at that counts. After all, the camera is only a tool for producing images. If you have the 'knack', then in my opinion, you're 75% of the way there.

HW

[Fourwings]

All are good cameras and will produce decent images, but my advice would be to go for the EOS 400D. This is based purely on my own experience of owning and using a Canon DSLR (EOS 20D) and is not meant to start yet another pointless debate on Canon vs Nikon.

Its a camera that you will not feel you have out-grown in a hurry, plus you will have access to the best range of lenses available.

My best advice is to go into a shop and handle all three cameras plus some others, at the end of the day you will choose the camera that feels right for you and thats the most important thing.

Good luck & let us know what you decide on.

[MartynA]

You're bound to receive 100 different replies to that question!

These days, they're basically all good cameras. Perhaps a few things to think about are:

1.Size - if you're going to be lugging it about everywhere the canon is smallest.

2.Sensor dust removal - if you're outside changing lenses this could be more of an issue - of the three cameras mentioned I believe the olympus has the best dust system.

3.Image stabilisation - if you're not using a tripod image stabilised lenses are a benefit - but at a price! Some cameras now have built-in 'shake reduction' that will work with any (i.e.cheaper) lenses.

I've just upgraded from Panasonic FZ30 to a Pentax K10D for these reasons:
1. 'Weather proof' body. (useful if you're messing around in Landrovers!)
2. Built in dust removal system.
3. Built in 'shake reduction' system.

If you're looking for a new kit you might have a look at the Samsung GX-10 (I think it's cheap in Argos) - as this is basically the pentax K10D re-badged and the two lens kit is a good price as a starter dslr.

Hope that helps

Martyn

[Hobjob]

I'm a canon man but Nikon vs canon is a pointless
argument - they are both great.
But
I can't get on with canon 350 / 400 as the body
is too small for comfort of my hands. (I have a 30D).

My smallish daughter also finds the same and went
for 20D at the time 30D came out, being swayed
by cost.


You may not think it now, but you WILL end up
buying extra lenses !!! Most of us have been there !

Whatever you buy now is likely to lock you into
that brand - can you get the lenses for the newer
image stabilized bodies ?? I don't know - I don't
know or care as I am locked into canon!!!

Search extensively for independent reviews on the
newer brands - we all know the canon / nikons
are good; they are the gold standard, make sure
you read comparative articles.

[paulthomas]

Originally Posted by dinger

Peeps..i appologise if this has already been covered.

I am looking to buy a decent camera( on a not so decent budget ) i have been advised to go for either a
Nikon D40,
Canon EOS 400D or
Olympus E-400.

I am a complete photography beginner but apparently i have the "knack" for seeing a good pic...whatever that means

I would like it for wildlife photography aswell as the obligatory childrens party and Landy meet.
Any advise? please

With respect I think you're going about this the wrong way. DSLRs are not simply cameras, they're camera systems. Each system has its own strengths and weaknesses. My advice would be to thoroughly research each system and see which most closely fits your needs.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by paulthomas

With respect I think you're going about this the wrong way. DSLRs are not simply cameras, they're camera systems. Each system has its own strengths and weaknesses. My advice would be to thoroughly research each system and see which most closely fits your needs.

thats true but not particularly relevant as dinger is asking for comparrisons on the budget models of three different camera systems - the advent of decent third party lenses from the likes of sigma and tamron for most major makes has made the differences between systems essentially the same as the difference between comparable bodies at any given price point

on the original point I would go with the canon, nikon is an equally good system but the D40 is not a particularly good exemplar of it (they cut the focciusing module in the D40 to save money meaning that it only works with a smaller array of lenses) and the good models such as D70s /D80 are more expensive. The other makes are lagging behind a little as canon and nikon are currently the market leaders, however at the end of the day any of the major makes (ie canon , nikon, oly, pentax, KM/sony, fuji, or sigma) will be okay ( I'm not going to debate the relative merits of each cos people always get upset)

the best thing is to go to a big shop and handle all of them yourself , then just jump in and buy one (tho not necessarily from the big shop -Internet traders will give you a keener price.) the key once you have picked a brand is to stick with it and slowly build up your lens and accessory collection as and when you can afford it

[MartynA]

Of course, the other option - which hasn't been mentioned because you started off by mentioning dslrs - is to avoid 'signing up' to a particular sytem and buy a so called 'bridge camera' which has most of the facilities of an dslr but with a fixed zoom lens. Most seem to agree that in this category the Panasonic and Fuji are the leaders.

If you're just starting out in photography that might be a better bet, as it will allow you to concentrate on learning about speed ,aperture composition etc. without getting bogged down learning the technicalities and operating systems of the dslr system.

Bottom line is to buy something that will give you some pleasure and produce prints that you're happy with.


Martyn

[joekid]

im in the same doldrums myself but seem drawn to the canon 400d,ive always used the big N,but common sence and the fact its the best sub £500 body available/ ive read all the tests/and it does what it says on the box, after useing canon eos slr,s(30v+33v)im impressed how quickly i can change programs and how accurate and fast they are,im a manual settings person but ive read loads on not being able to fool the caneras metering system,so with the 400 being better and having 10 mp,s im sold, as for lenses...go for a sigma zoom/seen the new 50-500,on -bay for £350,or an older 170- 500 for less,even 100- 400mm are a good lens for digital,around £250,some cammy gear may be needed too. all the best,youve picked the right time for it,some young foxs about soon

[darwin]

I bought a Canon Eos400D from Jessops for £499, and took it back withing 4 days for a refund.

Took some photos indoors and out, with and without flash and with Canon lens and Sigma lens. All were dark and pretty lifeless using AUTO mode, and this would have been the mode I would have used the most I reckon.

At the second time of trying the Sigma lens, it came up with Error99 and wouldnt take the photo. Switching back to the Canon lens would work though.

A quick search on Google revealed almost all Canon DSLR cameras were afected by Error 99 and there was no conclusion as to what is causing it, a lot of people are not happy with 'dark underexposed' images either.

All cameras have failing and none are perfect but I expected quality images when spending £500. Do your research and buy from Jessops, they have a 30 day money back guarantee if not happy. You might pay more but you may save hundreds too.

[Roy C]

Originally Posted by darwin

A quick search on Google revealed almost all Canon DSLR cameras were afected by Error 99 and there was no conclusion as to what is causing it, a lot of people are not happy with 'dark underexposed' images either.

First time I have heard that Almost all Canon DSLR's are afected by Error 99. I have the 350D and 30D and have taken 40,000 shots and never had a Error 99. By the way, Error 99 is the standard error message which could be caused by almost anything, but usually when a incompatible lens is being use or if there is a problem with the Battery or Memory card. Canon DSLR's out sell even Nikon's so I do not think that Millions of users can be wrong.You may have had a duff Camera but you cannot condemn all Canon DSLR's as being problematic.

[eeyore]

I would suspect that the err 99 in this case is generated by a duff chip in the sigma lens - all new sigma lenses are supposed to be digital compatible but there are a few rougue ones which shipped with the wrong chips fitted - this is a problem for all camera systems not just canon. Also if the lens wasnt new some older sigmas are incompatible with digital bodies and also cause error codes

under exposure wise canon meters are set to slightly under expose as standard in the automatic modes to preven blown highlights - however this should be slight (arround 1/3 of a stop), not the dark and gloomy shots you mention, so i would suggest that either you had the metering set up wrong or you had the exposure compensation set to under expose - either of these is easily done out of the box , especially if the camera has been fiddled with in the shop.

the only known and widely documented genuine faults with the canon system as a whole are that

a) the 18-55 kit lens supplied is total bobbins - it is better to buy body only or purchase a different lens as part of the package (popular choices include the 17-85 IS, 28-135 IS , or Sigma 18-125)

and

b) there are frequently problems with the battery grips causing compatibility issues - it is better to buy a hahnel grip which are also cheaper

[Roy C]

Originally Posted by eeyore

it is better to buy a hahnel grip which are also cheaper

I agree - I have a Hahnel for my 350D and have never had a problem with it.

[John D]

Originally Posted by darwin

I bought a Canon Eos400D from Jessops for £499, and took it back withing 4 days for a refund.

Took some photos indoors and out, with and without flash and with Canon lens and Sigma lens. All were dark and pretty lifeless using AUTO mode, and this would have been the mode I would have used the most I reckon.

At the second time of trying the Sigma lens, it came up with Error99 and wouldnt take the photo. Switching back to the Canon lens would work though.

A quick search on Google revealed almost all Canon DSLR cameras were afected by Error 99 and there was no conclusion as to what is causing it, a lot of people are not happy with 'dark underexposed' images either.

All cameras have failing and none are perfect but I expected quality images when spending £500. Do your research and buy from Jessops, they have a 30 day money back guarantee if not happy. You might pay more but you may save hundreds too.

One faulty camera doesn't mean ALL are the same. Seems it is a GROSS EXAGGERATION to say 'ALMOST ALL CANON DSLRS WERE AFFECTED by ERROR 99'. Canon sell tens of thousands
of cameras, now and again there will be a rogue. That will happen even with the most expensive car, watch or computer in fact any thing that is produced. NOTHING UNFORTUNATELY WILL BE COMPLETELY PERFECT.
You have been one of the unlucky ones. There are many more of us who are perfectly satisfied with our CANONS. Nikon and Olympus also make very good cameras but they cannot guarantee every one will be completely fault free. No one can!
Hope you eventually get a camera to your satisfaction.
John D

[darwin]

Look on Google, 350D, 400D, 20D users are all mentioning Error99 problems and not always with Sigma lenses.

I am not in the business of slating Canon, just stating facts,whether anyone chooses to believe or ignore constructive criticism is up to them.

Here is a link for information:

canon error 99 - Google Search

Imagine the scene, we go to Isle of Lewis for a holiday with Canon 400D and Sigma lens (which worked fine the first time it was used) and Error 99 everytime after that, you cant exactly jump into the nearest Jessops and buy a lens on the Isle can you?

As I said, I am just stating facts (not just me, but hundreds of others too). Probably more happy users than unhappy ones but when spending £500.....I don't thnk so!

Feel free to browse Google for error codes and dark images, and it will unearth a lot. I said nothing is perfect and I dont expect the 400D to be perfect but simply not worth the money (in my opinion).

Didn't mean to upset anyone (Canon users) but better for the prospective buyer to be aware (once again, in my opinion)

[darwin]

Quick Update:

When I said 'All Canon DSLR's affected by Error 99', I didn't mean every single DSLR, I meant almost all varieties of DSLR i.e. 10D, 20D, 350D and 400D etc but not every camera (if that makes sense)

Hope this clears up the matter and apologies for any confusion caused

[eeyore]

err 99 is generally a compatibilty issue - the comon causes are duff batteries , dirty lens contacts , incompativble lenses , contact problems with battery grips and duff firmware upgrades - it is not commonly the fault of the camera body (except in very rare cases when the firmware loaded in the factory is faulty)

thus it is true that you can experience it with any canon dslr - you can also experience thhe equivalent error code with any nikon, KM/sony, olympus, pentax, fuji or sigma.

Without meaning any disrespect to darwin ,dark (or more correctly underexposed) images are nearly always down to operator error - yes you can find a lot of comments about this on camera forums but rarely from anyone who knows what they are doing and has taken the time to read the manual and learn how to use the various camera settings.

canon assume, not unreasonably, that someone spending 500 plus notes on a DSLR isnt going to leave it in automode the whole time and thus these modes are a little simple and can lead to disapointment particularly for those upgrading from point and shoots that do everything for them - taking the time to get to know your camera and the field of DSLR photography in general will always pay dividends

edit - if you do buy a 400D or for that matter any other dslr dont buy it from jessops ,they are somewhat over priced

[darwin]

I agree that by tweaking settings with the camera, that the underexposure could be resolved but if I saw a Buzzard sitting on a fence-post , I want to press one button to take a photograph, the bird may have flown before I got the metering correct etc.

If Auto is not suitable, then it should be removed as an option and that would save the issue from arising

Maybe point and shoot are the best option for off the cuff photos is what you are saying, I think I tend to agree 100% with you

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by darwin

I agree that by tweaking settings with the camera, that the underexposure could be resolved but if I saw a Buzzard sitting on a fence-post , I want to press one button to take a photograph, the bird may have flown before I got the metering correct etc.

If Auto is not suitable, then it should be removed as an option and that would save the issue from arising

Maybe point and shoot are the best option for off the cuff photos is what you are saying, I think I tend to agree 100% with you

I walk arround with my camera set to AV, apperture set to f5.6 ( I have a 20D , a 300D and a 400D) , and the metering set to partial , the AF set to tracking servo and the shot mode to burst

I see a buzzard sitting on a fence post , frame the shot , the lighting fast focus module locks on , press the shutter , click click click - 3 shots - all perfectly exposed , then the buzzard flies i pan with it firing as i go more perfectly exposed shots , still razor sharp thank to AI servo - bosh

try that with a point and shoot and by the time the focus has stopped hunting it will probably have flown - and flightshots will be very hit and miss as there is no compact on the market that can rival any DSLR for tracking autofocus

I do own a couple of compacts (a fuji f10 and a pan FZ7) and they have a time and a place (normally for travelling light) but better than a DSLR ...no way

If you feel that a DSLR isnt for you then fine , but I am merely pointing out that having owned a camera you werent happy with for four days doesnt put you in the best position to advise others on its pros and cons

[Boddie]

Originally Posted by darwin

I agree that by tweaking settings with the camera, that the underexposure could be resolved but if I saw a Buzzard sitting on a fence-post , I want to press one button to take a photograph, the bird may have flown before I got the metering correct etc.

If Auto is not suitable, then it should be removed as an option and that would save the issue from arising

Maybe point and shoot are the best option for off the cuff photos is what you are saying, I think I tend to agree 100% with you

If you are only ever going to use automatic mode, then why buy a 400D? In my opinion automatic is only there for if you decide to lend your camera to someone who is not so competant.

I have owned the 350, 400 and 30D and have never had an error code