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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2011, 05:38 PM
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Lens advice for bird photography

Hi, I am new to this forum and would appreciate views on the best canon lens for bird photography between the canon 500mm f4 and the canon 400 mm f2.8
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Old 09-02-2011, 05:53 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

I have no doubt that the 400mm f/2.8 is the best lens...and so is the cost !!
...but my partner has the 400mm f/2.8...and it`s so sharp, however it is also heavy, but in my opinion still an amazing lens It beats my 500mm f/4 !! I`ll have to get one...soon !!

I hope this helps
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Old 09-02-2011, 09:11 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

What sort of birds mainly?

I think you need as many mils as possible.
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Old 09-02-2011, 09:23 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel_b View Post
What sort of birds mainly?

I think you need as many mils as possible.
I couldn't agree more!
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:03 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

thanks for your comments - in terms of the subjects I anticipate a side selection from general wildlife to birds in flight and stationary. My theory for the 400 f2.8 is that being a faster lens I could use it as is and with a 1.4 converter without impacting on the image quality but I recognise that the weight is an issue.

I should have said that I have a 5d mark 2 so lose out on the crop factor and the eventual lens will be second hand as funds, sadly, will not stretch to brand new

Anyone out there with a good quality lens please contact me
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:50 AM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

Its a very straight trade off between money, size, reach, weight

The 400 is heavy - not easy to hand-hold even by a big muscled chap (or a big muscled woman so as not to be sexist) but you need to be fit of either sex to wield this without a tripod for more than a few mins! Its not the immediate first choice for flight photography either. If the bird you want is close enough then the image from the 400 will out perform the 500 - but its not so often that birds are that close. You lose a little with the 1.4 but its not that noticeable unless you are comparing shots side by side. Where the 400 wins against the 500 is in poor light conditions - the 400 will still be taking shots when the 500 will be struggling and might need a bit more post adjustment. The 5D Mk11 has more pixels I think? So cropping to make up for the loss of 1.6 compression is not always noticeable either - unless you have shots side by side to compare. Its horses for courses ........ Hubby has the 400 I have the 500 .... I bite my lip when he is still taking shots in near darkness - he bites his when I am taking something further off than his 400 can reach

Pauline
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:26 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

Where do you want the lens to take you in bird photography?

this is a serious question and you've chosen 2 very expensive and optically brilliant lens.

I have used in the past both the 400 f2.8 and the 500 f4, i own and use the 600mm f4 presently.

Optically you can trawl the internet and compare and contrast image quality of all the canon super tele's and at the end of the day realise that optically they are all great.

You ideally need to asses what type of photography you want to focus on and work from there.

-for example if you are primarily using the lens for bird photography and not other routes- ie sports photography etc

-if you are buying a lens solely for wildlife/ birding then what are your targets?? _ are you going to be spending most of the time shooting from a hide on a tripod or are you wanting to go for a sunday walk with it over your shoulder and using hand held?

The 400mm 2.8 is optically great but you need to use a tripod or monopod with it, if your taking shots of birds on perches it can be used at 2.8 for tack sharp results. If shooting panning shots of birds in flight you can still catch moments at 2.8 but in reality its worth stopping down to try and catch a sharper image- light allowing that it. You will end up with the 1.4 x extender glued to it though and will always want to be closer.

The 500mm f4 is great and why it is probably the most popular birding lens, at f4 its fairly fast and fairly sharp, but you start to get tack sharp issues with the depth of field- f4 at 500mm gives you a very slim depth of field and if photographing a close subject (within 5-8m)- for instance small birds on a preset perch you will start to get only selective parts of the bird in crystal focus. You need to stop down to f7 or narrower. The 500mm is much better in my opinion for flight shots, giving you more reach and lighter to manover to track.

Its also worth noting the minimum focusing distance of the lenses- esp if using close perches and hides.

-the 400 2.8 will focus to 3m i beleive whereas the 500 has a minimal focus point of 4.5m. My 600mm f4 has a minimum focus distance of 5.5m! which on occasion has caused issues.

my advice would be to think about what exactly you want to photograph, if you want very sharp perch shots and use a hide id recommend the 600mm over the 400mm if you can get a deal on one, for an all round lens get the 500mm i really dont think you will miss the few f stop advantage you get with the 400 as the reach will be the main factor esp on a full frame body.

if you save by getting the 500mm you can always look for a second hand 300mm 2.8 which will be more usefull for tracking smaller birds in flight close up and hand held, or maybe upgrade your 5d to a 1 series body - the 1d mk4 has great tracking of moving subjects and 1.4 crop.

sorry ive been rambling a bit..

best idea is to rent the lens if you can find a reasonable priced place to do so , or borrow / trial from a friend?

I came into wildlife photography mainly through a photography based background/ interest so look far too much into the final image and sometimes lose focus on the actual scene/subject im photographing, everything has to be razor sharp for me to be happy with it so my advice is probably a little off for most wildlife photographers.

whatever lens you end up with, your sure to adapt your photography practice to it, as in how you end up photographing with it- ( i shoot sports and mainly surfing -hence the 600, but often walked with friends on sun afternoon bird shooting and the 600mm is not ideal for it, i can/ sometimes do use it handheld and have come up with techniques etc to stable it but it is heavy! now i spend a fair amount of time within field craft and hides)

hence the opening question where do you want IT to take YOUR photography.

mike
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Old 02-03-2011, 04:52 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

I've been a photographer most of my life, but I'm very new to bird photography too, and the above from Mike is very useful indeed: ramble or not!

I've decided on a two stage approach. Getting my Nikon 70-300mm lens tomorrow if Amazon are on the ball. With which I plan to spend a few months seeing how I adapt to the new subject. It's going to be a bit different to photographing railway steam locos and, for a few years, aircraft!

If I take to bird photogrtaphy after that time, I'll then think about moving up to one of Nikon's big f2.8 lenses. In that event the 70-300mm should be ok for some use in my other interests, if not I'll sell it.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:50 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

This was an excellent post from Miccro. I wish I'd written it.

I had the Nikon 400mm f2.8 on long term loan from a friend and I have 1.4 and 1.7 converters. (I have also spent time photographing with the 500mm f4 nikon). I seldom used it so would have been a waste of money. The problem is I hate sitting about in hides and despite my wish to take fine photographs a couple of long sessions in a hide showed me the error of my ways.

As a result all my best photos have been taken with bog standard cheap and light lenses. You see these are ones that I can walk about with, watch wildlife and climb into remote places. So these are the ones that get me my shots. Certainly I lose a bit of sharpness but I'll settle for for that because at least I've got my shots. I'm not a pro and this is enjoyment for me so what if I have to do a bit of stalking!

The heaviest lens I ever use is my 300 f4 + Tcs.
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:41 PM
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Re: Lens advice for bird photography

There's some good thought provoking posts on this thread.
I think we all suffer from lens envy. I certainly do. I'd LOVE to be able to manage a 500mm F4, never mind the 400mm F2.8! However, I know I can't. I can't walk far even without a camera and lens hanging round my neck so for me weight is a serious issue.
For this reason I've been longing for and very nearly bought a Canon 300mm F2.8. I'm still considering it but I still have this nagging thought that even if I get it I'll still be looking enviously at the 500mm F4!
Another point. When I look back through the many shots I've taken in the past, which lens has given me my best results? So far without a doubt my Sigma 50-500mm. Mainly because I had it in use for the longest period I suppose. It's by no means the sharpest lens I have, but it's versatile.
In good light around the public parks I tend to go to, without a doubt the best lens to have is my Sigma 50-500mm. Often the wildlife is too close even for my 400mm F5.6. So do I go out and spend over three grand on a lens and end up using one that's five years old and cost nearer £500? Sounds daft to me but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what I end up doing!
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