Commercial Ventures

[Chris_Johnstone]

I think there is some value in saying that selling prints over the internet does not guarantee much income but at the same time I think you must have that facility present. It would seem ridiculous to go onto a well known photographers site and have to then goto a stock agency or something just to order a print. The minute the buyer needs to do something unexpected is the minute they will give up and look elsewhere.

In saying that, I think articles and directly contacting magazines etc is a very good idea and persistence is probably important. Standing out is one of the most important parts of being successful but it goes hand in hand with devotion and patience. Often I think it would be easier just to become a wedding photographer and use your spare time to shoot wildlife...

Does anyone know of any photo galleries that have search facilities in-built. It seems like it might be a separate process altogether.

Gotta keep the chin up...

P.S got in just before me Pete!

Chris

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I'm (supposedly ) taking a break from wab to concentrate on other things in my life - like getting m buisness website up again, finding a job near my sweetie etc etc (btw I dont actually get married til next march - we are in the organising phase at the mo) - but as you can see i'm still lurking in the background and may make the occasional appearance.

On the topic at hand - I've sold a lot of images though mainly not wildlife . The majority of these have gone to magazines and you need to solicit them directly you can't rely on reactive web visits. Get a BFP handbook to get editors addresses etc (If i can find it I'd be happy to post you my old one)

The only sales I make on line is prints - my sites down at the mo but when it was up i did get a reasonable ammount of custom , though I was selling macro, abstract, fine art and landscape rather than specific wildlife.

I'm disapeearing back into the ether now but if you would like to chat through things chris i'm happy to help - i will pm you my email address before i disapear in a puff of purple smoke.

Blimey!
I'm getting married in 3 weeks!

[denisg]

Originally Posted by Chris_Johnstone

Standing out is one of the most important parts of being successful but it goes hand in hand with devotion and patience. Often I think it would be easier just to become a wedding photographer and use your spare time to shoot wildlife...

Does anyone know of any photo galleries that have search facilities in-built. It seems like it might be a separate process altogether.

Chris

There's a lot of wedding photographers out there too Chris

Look at it from the point I mentioned earlier. Don't think like a seller, think like a buyer. Think what would you like to sell, how are others doing it and how can I do it better AND different.............with an edge. I'm a 45 year seller, albeit for employers rather than self, but have created some great openings by not following the masses so to speak.

Many photographers have similar websites and sales gallerys. Few show frame selections, even fewer show special offers, where's the 3 for 2 for instance. Few also offer a custom service. Most never record the customers correctly, monitor their purchases and likes, to offer email specials.

Suffice to say that the selling is really the greatest part of the business, and it is a BUSINESS. You could be the greatest photographer in the world but it has to be sold.

How about getting some pics gifted as freebies to charity wildlife organisations for them to print and then show the literature/books/leaflets on your site as reference.............it goes on............

You don't have to be a genius to follow the oldest trick in the book either, go in 'high' then offer "if you place the order today............", we have all heard it but it still works. Price a popular frame high for 28 days, then half price it!. just try and do it a little differently but it does need effort, whichever route you take.

Denis.

[denisg]

Originally Posted by StuartDH

We wouldn't use the photos from the site, they'd need to best quality original from the photographer's PC for prints, but it might be possible to have an exhibition that combines prints, with plasma screens or projectors for lower res slideshows?

Unless you are on-site here at WAB Stuart, the Gallery pics are not easy to find via the net, and strangely, I couldn't find one on Google images. I might have picked the wrong ones of course!

Being strict with the titeling, you would have thought this would have made it easier, but I found not. Taking a pic such as a Tipula lateralis, Google gets 88 hits, WAB has 4 in the Gallery but Google only sees 1 while Google Images finds 20, none of which are in WAB. Bugsandweeds website is the most successful there by far. This was the same for all the pictures I chose to find where we had the same species on my site and WAB. Google Images found all mine, but none for the Gallery here.

Is the WAB Gallery seo'd to be indexed and is it sitemapped?

Denis.

[StuartDH]

Originally Posted by denisg

Unless you are on-site here at WAB Stuart, the Gallery pics are not easy to find via the net, and strangely, I couldn't find one on Google images. I might have picked the wrong ones of course!

Being strict with the titeling, you would have thought this would have made it easier, but I found not. Taking a pic such as a Tipula lateralis, Google gets 88 hits, WAB has 4 in the Gallery but Google only sees 1 while Google Images finds 20, none of which are in WAB. Bugsandweeds website is the most successful there by far. This was the same for all the pictures I chose to find where we had the same species on my site and WAB. Google Images found all mine, but none for the Gallery here.

Is the WAB Gallery seo'd to be indexed and is it sitemapped?

Denis.

It's fairly well SEO'd and sitemapped daily, but could do with some improvements

I think the issue is mainly with the google search engine updates which started off being weekly a few years, then monthly, then every few months and now it's been at least a year since they've trawled the internet to add new images from anything but the busiest sites in the world

We changed Gallery software last sept so the images have new links and google hasn't grabbed the photos from those pages yet. Some of the pages are linked on google, just not the photos

search google for google image updates and you'll see lots of old updates and lots of new rants by webdesigners about their images not appearing on google images

[nightshade]

I noted with interest several people selling prints of their own images at local markets. The prints were framed but local knowledge had shown them what sold so justified the extra production costs.

[Badllarma]

I run my own business part time and photography is just one part of it what I would say is market yourself locally and self publish, as everyone else has said the market is saturated.

I feel the only way you can make money at this is the digital age is self publish (post cards, coffee table books maybe) And the produce high end prints (limited editions) of your work. to sell direct through craft fairs, farmers markets etc.. and sell online.

You only have too look at the pros here we will use Andy Rouse for instance as an example he generate income from mulitple sources, Photo library sales, book sales, magazine articles, training courses, talks and commissioned work and there the only ones we know about!!!

Tax wise you will need to let them know and fill out a self asesment form every year basic three line accounts to begin with you won't need Sage!!!
Also you also have to sort out your NI if you are full time employed and have a turn over of a few k you can apply for NI exception certificate as you are already paying them a good chunk out of your full time job. you can keep this going as long as you are only earning a few k out of it.

You can buy gear and claim it back (or more correctly offset it against future profits) but remember to buy gear you need to be making money as well. If all your doing is buying shed load of gear and making no return at all after 3 years you may have a rather bad visit from the Tax man. asking you are you actually in business.
One last thing in the UK don't try and con the tax man or have two sets of books etc.. Because firstly under tax law you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent if your books are straight you have nothing to worry about. I speak from experience here where in my first year I got a tax bill for 20k (I was working full time as well!!) When I opened it I though I'm going to prison!!!! Then had a friendly meeting with them and my books it ended up them owning me a little bit of money