Canon HV20 or Sony HC7 : High Definition Video Cameras. Which Ones Best???

tigger · #1 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 12:34 PM

I still think there should be a separate area for "film" related questions and posts.... hopefully this is the right place for me to put this thread. Hope some of you, like me, are into film... as well as stills.

I'm in a quandary...

Do I buy a Canon HV20 or a Sony HC7??? Both are high definition video cameras... both have 10x zoom.... both have manual override settings...

Which is better to use for nature filming???? Anyone got one???

Anyone suggest any other video cameras, they need to be UNDER £1000 and preferably high def.

Thanks

Jane

gfilmsuk · #2 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 01:23 PM

Hi Jane.
Neither of these camera's are suitable for wildlife.
At the prosumer end you need to be looking at the Canon XL1 or XL2 that gives you the option to use 35mm lenses with an adapter. However, I doubt you'll find a S/H XL2 on the planet for under 1G.
I do strongly agree with you, this site needs a video/film section.

tigger · #3 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 01:29 PM

Thanks gfilmsuk. Why are they not suitable? can you expand on that a bit.

The canon XL1 or 2 are just TOO far out of my league (so I can't even look at them... even though I might get one in years to come).

What I need is something to get me started... that's better than my Sony HC22E (which I've been using for the last 2 years)...

I'd appreciate your comments. Jane

wildlifesnapper · #4 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 01:34 PM

Hi

just a quick question, I'm not hijacking

If the prosumers would use XL1 / 2, what sort would the pros use?

neil

gfilmsuk · #5 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 04:14 PM

Hi Jane
Think of a video camera along the same lines as a still camera. A still camera can be used with a multitude of different focal length lenses, each with their own job to do. For example; you wouldn't use a macro lens for photographing deer or barn owls at a distance of 200m any more than you would use a 500mm lens for capturing insect close-ups.
The video camera's you mentioned both come equipped with a fairly wide angle general purpose lens, which is fixed and can't be changed, a bit like a standard 50mm still camera lens and this is where your limitations will come in. Trying to film even large wildlife at the 10X zoom end will still result in a fairly wide angle.
These consumer, general purpose camera's are not intended to be used for wildlife filming, although at a zoo and standing alongside an elephant you will get good results.
With the Canon HV20 you will get good, crisp, sharp pictures and impressive colour saturation. and there is very little noise except for low-light situations when the image will show heavy graining even though this camera has a 'night mode' which doesn't do much.
My advice Jane would be to save up another grand and shop around for a good s/h XL1s you'll be amazed at the quality and won't regret a single penny.

And Neil, in answer to your question. Prosumer is a word used by Canon. The XL range of camera's have become industry standard with pro wildlife and documentary film makers throuought the world because of their amazing vesatility and reliability.

tigger · #6 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 05:18 PM

Hi gfilmsuk. Thanks loads for your answer.

I understand regarding the lack of zoom... I'm also worried about the lack of proper "manual" controls. However, I've spoken to other people who have similar HD consumer cameras with a 10x optical zoom, and they say that with HD you can push it to 20x using the digital zoom and still get a really good picture. Also I was thinking of investing in a tele-converter.

I know I should really save up for the XL1 but I do have reservations about that as well. I like to carry a video camera/tripod with me at all times. Lumping a XL1 around isn't going to be very practical due to it's size.

What I really need is a camera like the HV20 with detachable lenses and manual focus... then I'd be happy!

RobSutton · #7 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfilmsuk

Hi Jane.
Neither of these camera's are suitable for wildlife.
At the prosumer end you need to be looking at the Canon XL1 or XL2 that gives you the option to use 35mm lenses with an adapter. However, I doubt you'll find a S/H XL2 on the planet for under 1G.
I do strongly agree with you, this site needs a video/film section.

How about for close ups of insects and flowers - working on the principle that you can get really good close-ups with a digital compact could these type of camcorders work in that situation?

tigger · #8 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 05:32 PM

Almost certainly I suspect. The trouble is the stuff I want to film most of the time is on the other side of a field.... however for bees, butterflies, snakes I would imagine the pictures would be stunning.

gfilmsuk · #9 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 08:56 PM

I've just had a look at the simply DV site, SimplyDV Review: Canon HV20 HDV / DV Camcorder
and I must say it looks a very impressive piece of kit. You have manual overide on focus, white balance and shutter speed plus firewire in/out.
I don't know the answer on close-ups. I use a sigma 105 macro on my XL2 which gives amazing close-up results way beyond anything I can achieve using a Sony PD170.

tigger · #10 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 09:06 PM

I know I've read the review a thousand time... but the review for the Sony HC7 is just as good. Although it "says" it has manual overide... they aren't very good. It doesn't have a focussing ring, instead it has a "knob". Most people say it's pretty useless in the field.

It is an amazing bit of kit... and I've watched the price come down from over £1000 to about £550... but I'm still not quite convinced. The zoom still worries me, and the ability to edit HD video (which a lot of editing software can't cope with).

There's a Canon HV30 and a Sony HC9e now as well! Just to confuse matters. They are the new boys on the block... but look pretty similar to the first two.

Confused... and frustrated!

gfilmsuk · #11 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 09:39 PM

Easy solution. Hire an XL2 for a couple of days. Your confusion and frustration will disappear as if by magic and you'll shoot some amazing video.
Dave

Ukwildlifeo · #12 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfilmsuk

Easy solution. Hire an XL2 for a couple of days. Your confusion and frustration will disappear as if by magic and you'll shoot some amazing video.
Dave

I know its not video but was allowed to play with a certain nice expensive popular canon DSLR and then it was cruely taken back by it owner. Been suffering camera disatisfaction with my FZ7 ever since! So be prepared to be tortured if you cant afford to get it straight away!

tigger · #13 (**permalink**) 24-03-2008, 11:19 PM

I have got a friend with a XL1 and 2... thinking of asking him if I can borrow it for an afternoon. Trouble is I know what will happen then... I will get ukwildlifeo's camera dissatisfaction syndrome!

What I need is a lottery win. Maybe I should start by buying some tickets!

RichBrew · #14 (**permalink**) 25-03-2008, 12:37 PM

Jane,

Beware of trying out cameras like this, unless you are prepared to buy. I was advised in a similar manner when I contemplated the Nikkor 200-400 f/4 lens. I was informed that it would "spoil me for life" if I didn't get one after shooting with it, as the image quality is that good. Just a thought!.

RichBrew

gfilmsuk · #15 (**permalink**) 25-03-2008, 02:27 PM

camera disatisfaction syndrome, or better known as, CDS. That's a new one for the medical dictionary's, I bet there are a lot of sufferers!

Ukwildlifeo · #16 (**permalink**) 25-03-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfilmsuk

camera disatisfaction syndrome, or better known as, CDS. That's a new one for the medical dictionary's, I bet there are a lot of sufferers!

Maybe we should forma self help group lol

kevinTheB · #17 (**permalink**) 10-08-2008, 09:59 PM

you have answered your own question. Ther canon has good manual controls. There are too many forums where someone asks for advice on buying a certain camcorder and people tell them " dont buy that spend another two grand and your filming will be wonderful!"

You want to do it now, dont you. the canon has good results. Rebel filmakers use it and if you want to you can buy an adapter to add slr lenses on it. So go for it and you can start filming and learn as you do it.

most descent editing software now allows you to edit hi def video now.

regards,

Kevin B

deer boy · #18 (**permalink**) 11-08-2008, 12:46 AM

I have a canon XL2 & would highly recommend it although only if your going to use it a lot.
If your only going to be using it now & again get something cheaper.

tigger · #19 (**permalink**) 11-08-2008, 11:46 AM

I ended up buying a second hand Canon XL1... god am I glad I did, it's brilliant. Sooo much better than my previous hand held camcorder. OK, I now have to lump around a bulky old tripod, but the film quality and stability are so much better.

Having all the manual controls is great too. I was so worried that the Sony and Canon HD's wouldn't give me what I really wanted (and looking at them again now, I really don't think I would have been happy with them). However the XL1 gives me all the flexibility I need. I think I bought mine for a bit of a bargain (camera and tripod for approx £500) but I'm sure there are other bargains out there and it is 7 years old! To be honest, having now used the XL1 I would have been happy to pay double what I did pay (it really is that good).

OK, I will stop going on... there are down points. You can't really tuck the camera into your glove compartment or suitcase when you go on holiday and I don't have HD quality film, but I'm happy to make those compromises. It does what I need it to do.

deer boy · #20 (**permalink**) 11-08-2008, 06:39 PM

Glad your happy tigger,definitely a bargain at that price

Badllarma · #21 (**permalink**) 12-08-2008, 03:52 PM

Tigger, I've come to this thread late but you have made a great choice I run A Canon XL2 and XM1 also owned a XL1S previously. One thing you may want to think about is the Canon adapter and then just go out and buy yourself a cheap Canon USM 70-300mm lens F4-5.6 (pick them up around £90-£100.00 on an auction site.

You will then have a nice light lens that when added to the Canon adaptor to your XL1 and the lens turns into a 2000mm

great wildlife lens due to the smaller sensor on the XL1.

Also save you having to buy an expensive rail system, although you can of course add much larger faster lenses, if you do eventually have a rail system.

Just don't breath near it if you have it set the lens to 300mm (2000mm on the XL1)

And have a nice heavy tripod, Although when i first got mine I shot seals off the south cost of the Isle of Mann with a Velbon DV 7000 and managed to get usable footage withit at 300mm (2000mm)

tigger · #22 (**permalink**) 12-08-2008, 04:03 PM

Thanks Badllarma. I've been looking at the Canon Adapters. Unfortunately they are quite expensive (about £150-180) so I'm having to save up! I've also thought of getting an adapter made so that I could use some Canon FD lenses that I already have.

So if you know of an adapter going cheap, let me know!

Jane