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21-03-2008, 09:55 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 4,357
| | | Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Well, this week I went mad and bought myself a Canon MPE-65 macro lens. For those that don't know this is a very powerful macro lens, capable of between 1:1 and 5:1 reproduction. It's a strange lens to use, it has no AF and no MF ring either. You simply choose the desired level of magnification and then move the lens until the subject is in focus. It's more like a microscope than a camera lens. Working distance is very, very limited. At 1:1 it is 4 inches and at 5:1 it is only 1.6 inches - yes, really 1.6 inches!! 
I've been desperately trying to find an insect or spider in my garden since I got the lens on Tuesday, but I can't find a thing. Instead I've had to photograph flowers - the sequence below were of a daffodil taken in my conservatory (out of the wind!) and give some idea of the degree of magnification this lens is capable of. All of the following images are full frame (i.e. not cropped at all).
This first shot wasn't taken with the MPE-65, but illustrates the daffodil's stamen (stigma?) that are shown in the following images. 
This one was taken at 1:1 magnification with the MPE-65. 
This one was taken at 2:1 magnification: 
This one at 3:1 magnification: 
This one at 4:1 magnification: 
and this one at 5:1 magnification: 
To say this lens is tricky to use would be an understatement! DOF at 5:1 magnification is less than 0.1 mm at f5.6 and you can't really use a smaller aperture than that, at that level of magnification, because of softening from diffraction. At 1:1 magnification you can use f16 and you get a massive 2.2 mm DOF!
It's going to be fun experimenting with it. It does seem to need some very docile insects though!
Matt |
21-03-2008, 10:15 PM
|  | Dame Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North Kent
Posts: 6,773
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Cripes- it'll be cell structure next!
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21-03-2008, 10:32 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Scunthorpe, Nth Lincs
Posts: 1,668
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Great pics Matt. Were they hand held ? 
__________________ Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. Nature Photo's |
21-03-2008, 10:44 PM
|  | Knight Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Small North Lincolnshire village
Posts: 7,137
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Looks like a very interesting bit of kit Matt. I look forward to seeing the results on some insects. Sure you won't be long before you are master of it
Roger |
21-03-2008, 10:50 PM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: East Sussex
Posts: 960
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Really interested to see how you get on with it. I've had my eye on the MPE for a while now. What are you using for light and support? |
21-03-2008, 10:50 PM
|  | Knight Grand Cross of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nottingham
Posts: 12,194
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
I've been considering getting one of these, although I was a bit put off by the incredibly limited DOF and how close you need to be. I've seen some stunning insect images taken with it, but I've no idea how they managed to get that close and stop the insect from moving. 
It'll be interesting to hear how you get on with it Matt. |
21-03-2008, 10:54 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Llanelli, Carms, S.Wales
Posts: 1,136
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
This is one lens I would love to have. Because of the shallow DOF you may want to look at the image stacking program CombineeZM.
Dai |
21-03-2008, 11:13 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 4,357
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
thanks for the comments.
These images were entirely lit by flash. I had the flashgun on an off-camera bracket and bent the flash head forward, with a large home-made diffuser attached, so that the end of the diffuser is basically level with the end of the lens. These were taken with a tripod, although I've managed some reasonable shots up to 2:1 with just a monopod. The flash is basically freezing the motion.
Dai, I've already been playing with CombineZM
I'll also be interested to see if I can actually get close enough to any insects to photograph them! I have my doubts, but others have managed it. Time will tell.
Matt |
21-03-2008, 11:22 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 46
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Fantastic close-ups, Matt.
Unfamiliar area for me - can this piece of kit be used in the field, or is it more suited for a studio?
Chris. |
21-03-2008, 11:40 PM
| | Knight Grand Cross of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nottingham
Posts: 12,194
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaiTheDragon  This is one lens I would love to have. Because of the shallow DOF you may want to look at the image stacking program CombineeZM.
Dai | A focus rail wouldn't be a bad idea either, especially as you have to move the camera to get new focus areas. |
21-03-2008, 11:45 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 4,357
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Chris, it's certainly easier to use in a studio than in the field, but many do use it in the field.
The shots above were taken with a focusing rail.
Matt |
22-03-2008, 12:09 AM
| | Knight Grand Cross of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nottingham
Posts: 12,194
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_xyz Chris, it's certainly easier to use in a studio than in the field, but many do use it in the field.
The shots above were taken with a focusing rail.
Matt | I should have known you'd have one! I've got one as well, very useful tool especially when working with static macro shots. |
22-03-2008, 09:12 AM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 198
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
interesting piece of kit you got there....will be great when more insects start comming out, looking forward to seeing what it can do.
not that i can afford it but is there a nikon equivelent to this lens? |
22-03-2008, 09:54 AM
| | Member of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 262
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
crispy, there is no Nikkor equivalent. You will just have to put up with ordinary macro lenses!
HW |
22-03-2008, 08:28 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 198
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
im surprised nikon hasnt filled that gap in the market yet. |
22-03-2008, 08:59 PM
| | Member of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dorset
Posts: 260
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy im surprised nikon hasnt filled that gap in the market yet. | Just because a certain focal length is not as yet present in the Nikon range doesn't necessarily mean they are intending to rectify the matter. It's all down to whether they consider the substantial costs of researching and developing such a lens will sell in sufficient quantities to recoup the outlay. No manufacturer has it all covered: Canon, for example, don't have a 200-400 f/4 lens, but the Nikkor has existed since 1984 (albeit as as a manual focus lens), and as an AF-S lens since 2003.
RichBrew
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22-03-2008, 09:28 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Nairn,Nairnshire,Scotland
Posts: 2,218
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Great set of pics Matt well done like others look forward to some creepy crawlies especially at 5.1 will be interesting should be able to see their teeth
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23-03-2008, 06:36 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: N.E. Derbyshire
Posts: 1,824
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Hi
my only question is what can it do that a set of extension tubes on a macro lens set to minimum focus can't do ?
neil |
23-03-2008, 06:49 PM
| | Knight Grand Cross of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nottingham
Posts: 12,194
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildlifesnapper Hi
my only question is what can it do that a set of extension tubes on a macro lens set to minimum focus can't do ?
neil | I doubt you'd get anyway near 5:1 with extension tubes. Certainly not with my 150mm anyway. |
23-03-2008, 10:23 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 4,357
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildlifesnapper Hi
my only question is what can it do that a set of extension tubes on a macro lens set to minimum focus can't do ?
neil | the MPE-65 provides what is basically a massive, flexible extension tube. So it zooms from 1:1 to 5:1.
A full set of extension tubes is normally 68mm and on a 150mm macro lens this only extends the magnification at minimum focus from 1:1 to 1.45:1. On a 100mm macro lens they would increase magnification from 1:1 to 1.68:1. So these get nowhere near 5:1. In addition there is the greater flexibility of having a 'zoom' so that you can set your magnification level without having to change the number of extension tubes.
Matt |
24-03-2008, 05:48 AM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: N.E. Derbyshire
Posts: 1,824
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Hi
yes, I know the maths
What I'm trying to justify is a £700 price tag. My 90mm macro with tubes can fill the frame with a 6-8m insect, how many people will actually need to go that much bigger?
I'm not knocking the lens as if you need to go that close it's gonna be great, even if it is a pain to use at 5-1 . What I'm trying to provoke is the "do I need it" thought so someone doesn't spend £650-700 on a whim after seeing the great close-ups this lens is capable of and then after the initial novelty period the lens is sat on a shelf gathering dust ( and we've all done it, be honest ).
Anyway, hope you find your insect/spider soon Matt
neil |
24-03-2008, 08:38 AM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 4,357
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildlifesnapper Hi
yes, I know the maths
What I'm trying to justify is a £700 price tag. My 90mm macro with tubes can fill the frame with a 6-8m insect, how many people will actually need to go that much bigger?
I'm not knocking the lens as if you need to go that close it's gonna be great, even if it is a pain to use at 5-1 . What I'm trying to provoke is the "do I need it" thought so someone doesn't spend £650-700 on a whim after seeing the great close-ups this lens is capable of and then after the initial novelty period the lens is sat on a shelf gathering dust ( and we've all done it, be honest ).
Anyway, hope you find your insect/spider soon Matt
neil | sorry, I thought you probably knew the maths.
The lens is capable of amazing things, but is very much a specialist lens, requiring lots of practice (the lack of working distance makes it very difficult to use) and a good flash set-up (with the ability to deliver light right onto the subject, so either ring-flash, MT-24, or large diffusers on a normal flash gun). So it's not for the casual user. But if you have a strong interest in going beyond 1:1, as I do, then this is the lens for you. To put it another way, if you regularly use extension tubes on your macro lens and sometimes wish you could magnify even more, then the MPE-65 might be worth considering.
I think I will get lots of use from it but I realise not everyone would. It's also worth pointing out that I paid a fair bit less than £700, but I'm sure you know about alternative routes for lenses (and the risks/benefits of those routes).
Here's a shot from yesterday, taken at around 2:1 magnification: 
Matt |
24-03-2008, 01:09 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: N.E. Derbyshire
Posts: 1,824
| | | Re: Extreme Macro (Canon MPE-65)
Hi Matt,
nice shot , super sharp!
Like I said it's a cracking lens and looking at the shots on your site I know you'll get "more" than your moneys worth out of the lens.It's even got me looking at the possibilities (no I can't go there , stop it!  )
My comments are more aimed at the impulse buyers, just to think so they arn't dissapointed. You know w | |
