300mm - 400mm difference

[galanthus]

Having been lucky enough to be watching siskin outside my office window the last few days I'm wondering about buying the canon 400mm.

I have canon 400d and my longest lens currently is my canon 70-300mm IS lens. Does anyone have any pics of the 300 at its longest and the 400mm pls? I'm just not sure how much difference the extra 100mm will be. I thought of trying one in the shop, however, I need to see the difference with a bird perching to get an idea. Any help appreciated.

[RichBrew]

It really will be better to try out the focal lengths for yourself, as only you can judge if the extra 100mm is worth the extra money. I think you will be surprised at how little difference there is between the lenses.

RichBrew

[matt_xyz]

the following webpage provides a comparison of different focal lengths. Scroll down for 300 v 400:

Juza Nature Photography

Matt

[JeffH]

Galanthus, I don't know if this helps at all but here's 2 (not particularly good) shots taken a few minutes ago with my Canon 100 - 400, the 1st with the lens set at 300mm and the 2nd at 400mm. Both are uncropped, from the same distance and have been compressed to the same extent for this purpose -

Only you can decide if the difference is worth it





Jeff

[Muggsy]

I use the same combination as Galanthus and have been asking myself exactly the same question, and trying to justify the financial outlay on the larger lense.

Checked Matts link, thanks for that, Jeffs however, looks like case proven

What an amazingly helpful bunch there are on this site.

[Tormentil]

Originally Posted by matt_xyz

Juza Nature Photography

Matt

Nice find that site Matt. The articles are well worth reading.

[galanthus]

Agree great site matt, really interesting and useful.

Thanks very much for the pics Jeff, you've helped a lot. I am now tearing brain over 1.4 or 2x extender plus the 400mm....... oh god more dilema

[GerryNick2]

The 400mm will certainly give you an advantage over the 300mm, but even with the 400mm you will need to get fairly close to get a decent shot if small birds are your quarry. I have both the Canon 70-300 DO and the 100-400mm, the latter is in for repair so had to make do with the 70-300mm today, even from 15ft the birds were just dots on the landscape.

The 100-400mm works well with a 1.4x tc providing a 560mm focal length but you do have to use manual focus.

Gerry

[galanthus]

Originally Posted by GerryNick2

The 100-400mm works well with a 1.4x tc providing a 560mm focal length but you do have to use manual focus.

Gerry

Hmmmm, so mayhap the 400mm prime plus a 1x4 cld be a good solution then ? I'd love a bigger prime but def not paying 4 thou odd

[galanthus]

Originally Posted by galanthus

Hmmmm, so mayhap the 400mm prime plus a 1x4 cld be a good solution then ? I'd love a bigger prime but def not paying 4 thou odd

I've just read that it is better not to buy the canon 1.4 tcoverter but to go for the cheaper of 2 (not the sp one ?), Tamron 1.4. This apparently has 3 pins missing instead of having to tape them down and has better quality of pics than using the more expensive tameron or a canon. Getting very complicated but wondered does anyone use this combination ? This allegedly gives 640mm on the cropped sensor and if light not too bad is ok.

[GerryNick2]

I am in the same dilemma, am a staunch Canon supporter but it seems that anything over 400mm you are talking silly money which I could not justify.

Waiting to see what the price will be for the new Sigma 150-500mm with image stabilization, if it is reasonable I might be tempted.

Gerry

[big bill]

I have the same problem bought a 500mm mirror lens and x2 converter fro that well known site tried it yesterdayand basically the photos it produced were oeoeoeoe so contacted person bought from and its on way back with full refund the shots were all out of focus even using mirror lockup to avoid camera shake.
Started searching web for a good x2 converter froma reputablew shop and came across fotosense they have a Kenko Teleplus DG 2X Pro 300 teleconverter offering full Af and in Canon Mount price £139.95,they say it works best from 150mm upwards

[BillyPilgrim]

Originally Posted by GerryNick2

I am in the same dilemma, am a staunch Canon supporter but it seems that anything over 400mm you are talking silly money which I could not justify.

Gerry

I always thought the same about justifying such a big outlay until I was made redundant the other week, got fixed-up with another job straight away and was then left with the prospect of almost a year's salary to spend.

After my wife has squandered most of it on a kitchen extension there will still be enough left to buy a Canon 500mm f/4

Its probably the only chance I'll get to own this lens so I think I'll go for it!

[Geoff F]

I'm still pondering the 400mm dilemma. The trouble with the 400 prime is that it lacks Image Stabilisation, unlike the 100-400. But the 400 prime is generally reckoned to be a bit sharper and when you add a converter we are getting into tripod territory anyway. Does this help or just muddy the waters further?

[RichBrew]

Originally Posted by big bill

... bought a 500mm mirror lens and x2 converter fro that well known site tried it yesterdayand basically the photos it produced were oeoeoeoe ....

I'm hardly surprised. Mirror lenses have a poor reputation at best, and the addition of a X2 TC to the optical equation boggles the mind.

RichBrew

[GerryNick2]

Originally Posted by big bill

I have the same problem bought a 500mm mirror lens and x2 converter fro that well known site tried it yesterdayand basically the photos it produced were oeoeoeoe so contacted person bought from and its on way back with full refund the shots were all out of focus even using mirror lockup to avoid camera shake.
Started searching web for a good x2 converter froma reputablew shop and came across fotosense they have a Kenko Teleplus DG 2X Pro 300 teleconverter offering full Af and in Canon Mount price £139.95,they say it works best from 150mm upwards

You don't say what camera and lens you would be using the Kenko TC with but I would treat what fotosense say regarding AF working with caution. I have a Kenko 1.5 tc and a Pro 300 1.4 tc. AF works well using the 1.5x with most of my Canon lenses and the 30D but will not work with my 40D. AF will not work with the Pro 1.4x on either my 30D or 40D. In fact Kenko themselves warn that with the 300 Pro version for AF to work you need a lens aperture of f4 or larger, f2.8 for the 2x. If you have a EOS 1 series body you may be ok.

Gerry

[glsammy]

You may be able to trick the camera to attempt to auto focus, but if the minimum setting is greater than F5.6, it simply isn't going to work very well. That's why Canon switches it off for lenses greater than F5.6.
It will work with the 400mm F5.6 plus 1.4X, but not very well, as it becomes an F8. In perfect light it's fine, but will hunt a lot if the levels drop.
The Kenko 300 pro 1.4X is excellent, and will work with lenses the Canon one wont. This is because the Canon TC inner lens bulges outwards and can foul incompatible lenses, not a good idea. The Kenko one doesn't do this, being a different shape.
As for using a 2X, I'd forget it on anything other than a fast prime lens, such as an F2.8. You lose two stops of light, so an F2.8 becomes and F5.6, in which case autofocus will work but use it on an F5.6 lens and your lens become an F11. It's doubtful any autofocus will work at that setting at least on a cropped sensor camera.

[Words]

Just adding my two pennies to this thread. For me the upgrade from the 70-300 DO lens to the 100-400 pump was well worth it. I still use both, but the pump's extra reach does make a difference. I've since added a Kenko 1.4 Pro 300 DG TC to use with my 100-400mm pump. Results are mixed, and the IS won't work with that combination on my 400D. I've had some good keepers like this pied wagtail which would certainly have been out of decent range without the TC. But I've had plenty of misses (much higher than without the TC) as keeping the lens stable is a struggle, even with decent speeds. Just picked up a monopod today, and it makes a big difference. The pigeon (second photo) was taken with the full combination, no image stabilization at 1/60sec, from about 70 feet away. Slight crop. No way could I have got that without some sort of support.

Pied Wagtail (cropped image)


Pigeon (slight crop)

[DaiTheDragon]

Originally Posted by BillyPilgrim

I always thought the same about justifying such a big outlay until I was made redundant the other week, got fixed-up with another job straight away and was then left with the prospect of almost a year's salary to spend.

After my wife has squandered most of it on a kitchen extension there will still be enough left to buy a Canon 500mm f/4

Its probably the only chance I'll get to own this lens so I think I'll go for it!

For the price of the Canon 500mm you could get a Sigma 300-800mm 5.6 EX DG APO HSM. I know the Canon has IS but I don't think you will be taking many hand held shots.

Dai

[ron1863]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

Nice find that site Matt. The articles are well worth reading.

Yes, I agree it's an excellent site and the articles and photographs are really good, well worth a visit.

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by GerryNick2

The 100-400mm works well with a 1.4x tc providing a 560mm focal length but you do have to use manual focus.

Gerry

the 100-400 AF will work with the ontacts taped and reasonable light. Yes it is slower to lock on, but it does work.

[BillyPilgrim]

Originally Posted by DaiTheDragon

For the price of the Canon 500mm you could get a Sigma 300-800mm 5.6 EX DG APO HSM. I know the Canon has IS but I don't think you will be taking many hand held shots.

Dai

I did consider that along with the Canon 400mm f/2.8 and just about every other long lens! Decided on the 500mm as it can take a 1.4x converter and still deliver good results.

I agree about the hand-held shots. It will mean that I'll have to use a monopod/tripod with a gimbal head. I still hope to get the odd hand-held shot though.

[galanthus]

Originally Posted by BillyPilgrim

I always thought the same about justifying such a big outlay until I was made redundant the other week, got fixed-up with another job straight away and was then left with the prospect of almost a year's salary to spend.

After my wife has squandered most of it on a kitchen extension there will still be enough left to buy a Canon 500mm f/4

Its probably the only chance I'll get to own this lens so I think I'll go for it!

how fab is that !!!! wld you like to marry me ? for the lens tho not the kitchen yuk !!

[BillyPilgrim]

Originally Posted by galanthus

how fab is that !!!! wld you like to marry me ? for the lens tho not the kitchen yuk !!

Best offer I've had for years!