Camera Settings and Use of Software

[John D]

I have been having a look at various images on WAB and other sites and note quite a difference in 'image quality'. In many cases it appears that it is not necessarily down to the quality of equipment being used but rather due to 'camera settings' or the proper use of 'image editing'.
On another site I regularly visit I note Canon 100-400mm IS lenses, Sigma 50-500mm lenses and even some prime lenses being used at times where the resulting image is lacking in clarity and sharpness. It appears that this is a continuing trend as far as some contributors are concerned.
This being the case I wonder how many people simply take the camera out of the box, attach the lens (if a DSLR) and fire away. I also wonder how many use 'image editing' other than to crop or resize.
I also note that RAW is being used in certain cases but there appears to be little if any 'image editing' done other than conversion to JPEG.
Could there be a misunderstanding in some cases regarding the use of 'digital cameras' and DSLRs in particular. Has the understanding of digital become a 'point and shoot' exercise for some people or is it the case that they are not prepared to spend a bit more time learning about the equipment and software capabilities.
I know that my teenager granddaughter got a digital camera (a small point and shoot) from Santa removed it from the box and took several dozen photos before looking at the instructions. When she let me see them she said she wasn't entirely satisfied with the results. A look through the instructions and a few adjustments made all the difference.
I must add she was not aware of the use of 'image editing' and the what benefits it could provide.
This is just my observations. It would be interesting to read what others think.
I feel there is always a need to improve and learn.
John D

[GME]

A very interesting point. I have not been on for a while and noticed since I've had a bit more time to get on WAB that a lot of the images don't have the camera and lens settings as easily identifiable anymore. Have they just moved? I used to find them really useful to see what settings/ camera/ lens were used and I felt I learnt a lot from other people indirectly in this way. If someone could put me straight on this matter I'd be greatful.

I think you are right on learning how to use the equipment. I joined a photography club and learn loads from other people and have spent ages reading through the instructions that came with the camera as I want to improve. I think a lot of people just don't want to do this though and simply need a way to record a moment in the easiest manner possible. They want to pick up a camera put it on auto and shoot away. I think that's fine too if that's what you want. If you want the best possible images though I agree that you need to know how to get the best from your equipment and software.

[zan]

thing is, DSLRs and sofware take a long time to learn to use well, especially if you're brand new to photography and are teaching yourself. Modern DSLRs let you choose your level of expertise and this is maybe why they are becoming so popular? For new photographers, it's perfectly possible to get a half decent shot out a camera set to auto with little if any editting. As you learn and improve (assuming you want to) you can switch out of auto and start looking at editting packages and training yourself to see the detail in your photos.

I think a lot of the photos that are uploaded online go up at various stages in the learning curve, which is no bad thing. I've learned so much from online forums etc about improving my shots!

[SteveHL]

I think part of the problem may lie in the fact that it takes time ( and quiet a bit of it) to learn about your camera settings and having got to grips with that then learning that you now had to get to grips with post camera processing.
What most people don't realise when get a DSLR and a software package like PS Elements is that its freed you from the processing lab but you've assumed the job of both the photographer and the lab. Unless you had an in depth relationship with your processing lab and discussed prior to processing your requirements you'd have picked up your prints and taken them away quite happy but oblivious to how much colour correction and sharpening and even cropping the lab had done on your behalf.
I know that I was stopped dead in my tracks after posting a picture on another site and I'm glad to say a long time ago and being told "it was soft". There was no explanation and it took a lot of questions and practice to get my pictures up to everyone else's standard.
It tough you need a good mentor, as well as a good understanding of your camera and a good workflow instruction book to get the best results.
Regards
SteveHL

[badger426]

My Mrs got me a book by a chap called Tom Ang titled "How To Photograph Absolutely Everything". It deals with small to medium digital cameras showing how to use the various features and settings.

[DaiTheDragon]

The only way to learn how to get a good photograph from your camera is practise and more practise. you don't even have to leave home. I will sometimes put a light object in a dark corner of the garden and vice versa, take a load of shots at different settings, look at them on the computer and make a note of the best settings.
Or go out find a sign with some writing on it at the distance you might photograph a bird or whatever and try different settings to find the best. I even used to keep my settings in a little note book and carry it around with me.
No matter what software you use there are hundreds of tutorials on the web so if you want to lean about Levels adjustment do some tutorials , the same with any other part of PP. Although I consider myself quite proficiant at Photoshop I still do a few tutorials every week.

Dai

[big bill]

I agree with all the wentaments mentioned,I am in the process of going back to Canon as I just dont like the Nikon D40 nice camera dont get me wrong but just cant take to it so its back to Canon for me.The first thing I do is always read the manual through at least 3-4 times and even take it to bed to read then go thru it again with camera in front,
When I came out of the services I undertook a course in photography advertised in one of the camera mags back in the 80s,when I came out I thought my pics were good until I took the course and did I not have a rude awakening by the time I finished the shots previous to the course would be lucky to pass as snap shots I also did my own developing for a time then switched to digital and PC a lot a people bemoan the effects of digital manipulation but what I strive to do is get it properly captured at the taking stage with just slight adjustments to levels and crop and the final is sharpening ,all these are normal for the wet room photographer but some bemoan this because its manipulation on a pc.
I used to belong to a camera club and it was good they would set a theme for competitions and outings and then you would bring pics for critics to examine,all a part of the learning curve but the best critic is yourself if your honest look at the image leave it a day or two then look at it again to see if you still like it if not get rid.

[Nettle Runner]

Originally Posted by big bill

I used to belong to a camera club and it was good they would set a theme for competitions and outings and then you would bring pics for critics to examine

There must be new thread in there, somewhere
Who's going to suggest a theme, then.

Les

[Brocker]

I think we all learn at different speeds, in different ways and for different reasons. I am studying for a 'Diploma in Professional Photography' so my learning is not only directive but also quite intense. I can however, understand why someone would want to get their camera from the box and just have a go out of pure eagerness. That is human nature. After that, everyone travels a different path with their photography and learns the ins and outs of their cameras and lenses at varying degrees, some with the help of books, some with mentors, some with the instruction manual and so on. The viewer of each image will not necessarily know at what stage the photographer is at, which is why I believe that good honest feedback is very important and for my particular journey very welcome indeed. . . .

[glsammy]

I see many many images loaded up to WAB that with a bit of tweaking turns an average image into a gem.
I often download them and have a go, but I never do any more, I'm never sure what the reaction of the owner may be to my tinkering!

[LoveT]

I've got another Tom Ang book, 'Digital Photographer's Handbook', which is pretty handy, as is 'Mastering Your Digital SLR' by Chris Weston - full of useful information. Having said all that, I agree with the view that you can only really learn by doing - and that goes for the software too!

[big bill]

I know what you mean Graham there are some really good images on the site that with some simple tweaking here and there can be improved a great deal. YOu just dont know how the originator will take to the adjustments without permission its a shame that something cannot be done with the originators permission along the lines of taking the image making the tweaks and sending it back to the originator for approval listing what and how you changed it for the better

[Duke of York]

Originally Posted by glsammy

I see many many images loaded up to WAB that with a bit of tweaking turns an average image into a gem.
I often download them and have a go, but I never do any more, I'm never sure what the reaction of the owner may be to my tinkering!

Althought I doubt it may happen if you happen to get the chance to turn one of my pictures into a 'gem' please feel free with my blessing

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by big bill

I know what you mean Graham there are some really good images on the site that with some simple tweaking here and there can be improved a great deal. YOu just dont know how the originator will take to the adjustments without permission its a shame that something cannot be done with the originators permission along the lines of taking the image making the tweaks and sending it back to the originator for approval listing what and how you changed it for the better

Slightly off subject perhaps and I apologise for this, but on a certain site I used to frequent any member that did not mind other members editing and reposting their work used to add a simple line in their signature that read "image editing allowed". This let other members know that they could edit that persons images without any fear of getting into trouble for doing so.

Don't know if that would be feasible to implement on here.
Roger

[Bub-les]

Originally Posted by big bill

I know what you mean Graham there are some really good images on the site that with some simple tweaking here and there can be improved a great deal. YOu just dont know how the originator will take to the adjustments without permission its a shame that something cannot be done with the originators permission along the lines of taking the image making the tweaks and sending it back to the originator for approval listing what and how you changed it for the better

As I get more used to taking and uploading photos please please feel free to do or sugest anything at all even the bin! for any of my photos. I managed to take a couple today of a Robin but I'm very disappointed as they are very noisy so I must be setting the camera up wrong. I've tried having a go at "improving them!" to no avail they are noisy still you can at least tell its a Robin!!

[davetucker]

Hi

what might help (it worked for me) is to download a programme called "opanda EXIF" it is free. What Opanda Exif does, is inbed the information from your camera, into the photo. This information is accessed by "right clicking on the image". This will allow anyone looking at your photo access to your shooting information, ie: Mode, Speed, ISO, Lens.....etc. Therefore it gives more information to the viewer when asked to critique a particular photo.

Hope this makes sense and is of help.

[GerryNick2]

Originally Posted by Bub-les

As I get more used to taking and uploading photos please please feel free to do or sugest anything at all even the bin! for any of my photos. I managed to take a couple today of a Robin but I'm very disappointed as they are very noisy so I must be setting the camera up wrong. I've tried having a go at "improving them!" to no avail they are noisy still you can at least tell its a Robin!!

Looking at the Robin image I can see why you are dissapointed and clearly there are a number of problems with it.

To try and establish where things are going wrong it would help if you could say what camera and lense you used and the exposure settings i.e. shutter speed, aperture, ISO etc. Was it shot in RAW or jpeg?

Shooting against a white background appears to have fooled the camera to a certain degree.

With a bit more information I am sure one of the resident experts will be able to establish the problems.

Gerry

[Brocker]

Gerry is right. It would help considerably if you could tell us what camera and some of the settings. It looks like a point and shoot with the setting set on smaller file size. Looking at some of the information it would appear that this file is less than 2kb in size. This will deteriorate the quality immensley. Give a little more info and I am sure we can help improve it no end. The basics are actually very good. Good light, good crop etc.

[Geoff F]

Not quite sure where to start. I've come to this site recently and I'm still finding my way around. I spend a bit of time on a photo forum site (US based) where they take photography very seriously but always find time to give advice to a newbie, even if it is sometimes a bit direct and unfeeling.

As far as I can see there are two basic camps of photographers. Those who aim to create perfect photos, including wildlife, and those whose chief interest is wildlife but also try to take reasonable photos of what they are seeing. Suppose, as I photograph many subjects, I am attempting to enter the first camp.

With regard to the original question. You will always see widely different skill levels here and, yes, I do look at some photos and say 'adjust the Curves or use a little Unsharp Mask'. That's the 2 which I scream most. But at the same time, I look at others and tend to feel a little ashamed of the best I can manage. Also, sometimes look a little envious at the equipment which some people are using.

I feel the only way to get better is to look at my efforts and say 'That is rubbish, what should I have done?' For anybody who also wishes to improve I would say 'Yes by all means get a good book and read it from cover to cover.' But that is only the start. The most important thing is to ignore the camera auto controls and work out the best settings for each image. By all means take a first auto set 'ranging shot' to give yourself a starting point.

The same goes for software. Too many programmes are using simple auto controls created for the beginner but they work on average settings and I don't regard my images as average. At least not to me.

Hope this encourages somebody to just 'jump in at the deep end' and start learning. It's great fun.

ps. I've had a little tweak with Bub-les's robin. Really need the original but, for what it's worth, I cropped in a bit, tweaked the colour balance with Levels, brightened it with Curves and applied a little Unsharp Mask.

[Bub-les]

Thanks for your interest and comments.
Some more info from me I have a Sony Alpha and have recently bought a Tamron 200-500mm lens which I am trying to get to grips with before I go on holiday at Easter with my daughter. I have been trying perhaps to run before I can walk and unfortunately been guilty of rushing things a little! Take the first robin photo I have checked the exif data and low and behold it shows my major mistake .... I forgot to alter the shutter speed it was set way too fast at 1/1000sec I also had the ISO setting a little high at 800. I didn't get a chance to change it all as the robin flew off before I could! The reason that the exif data is missing on the photo is because I used Serif photoplusX2 to process it and I haven't found out how to save the data with the photo yet.
Now today the robin was a little more obliging as was the weather! I had some sunshine! I hope you'll agree that the resulting photo is somewhat better. He looks very bedraggled perhaps got wet in the morning rain and was sunning himself to dry out! Anyway I had a more time to set the camera up this time the shutter speed was 1/500sec and the ISO 200. I did not use the Serif prog. to process it did it with photoshop CS. Initially used the Sony raw converter and added some sharpening saved as a 16 bit tiff then used photoshop used curves + unsharp mask changed to 8bit and saved as JPEG. Then used PIXresizer to make the file size small enough to post. Hope you like the result a little bit.

[glsammy]

Originally Posted by Bub-les

Thanks for your interest and comments.
Some more info from me I have a Sony Alpha and have recently bought a Tamron 200-500mm lens which I am trying to get to grips with before I go on holiday at Easter with my daughter. I have been trying perhaps to run before I can walk and unfortunately been guilty of rushing things a little! Take the first robin photo I have checked the exif data and low and behold it shows my major mistake .... I forgot to alter the shutter speed it was set way too fast at 1/1000sec I also had the ISO setting a little high at 800. I didn't get a chance to change it all as the robin flew off before I could! The reason that the exif data is missing on the photo is because I used Serif photoplusX2 to process it and I haven't found out how to save the data with the photo yet.
Now today the robin was a little more obliging as was the weather! I had some sunshine! I hope you'll agree that the resulting photo is somewhat better. He looks very bedraggled perhaps got wet in the morning rain and was sunning himself to dry out! Anyway I had a more time to set the camera up this time the shutter speed was 1/500sec and the ISO 200. I did not use the Serif prog. to process it did it with photoshop CS. Initially used the Sony raw converter and added some sharpening saved as a 16 bit tiff then used photoshop used curves + unsharp mask changed to 8bit and saved as JPEG. Then used PIXresizer to make the file size small enough to post. Hope you like the result a little bit.

A slight improvement!

Seriously, nothing wrong with the settings for this shot at all. A shame about the leaf in front, but technically it looks very good to me.

[Bub-les]

Thank you.
Persistence pays or so they say!
One day.......