Close up / Macro Photography

[Jon]

Just thought I would mention something. I have always done close up shots with the lens on manual and moved the camera backward and forwards to get sharp focus. I have an EOS 20D and the old fashioned 100mm canon macro - not USM. I did some shots today of hoverflies using the AI servo mode, guess what everyone is in focus.
It's worth a try, I was really amazed. Jon

[Fourwings]

The AI servo mode is a great feature of the 20D and will compensate for small amounts of movement during macro photography, it's also awesome for taking in-flight images of birds.

[glsammy]

Originally Posted by Fourwings

The AI servo mode is a great feature of the 20D and will compensate for small amounts of movement during macro photography, it's also awesome for taking in-flight images of birds.

I don't think I've taken mine off AI Servo mode yet....

[digi]

Originally Posted by Jon

Just thought I would mention something. I have always done close up shots with the lens on manual and moved the camera backward and forwards to get sharp focus. I have an EOS 20D and the old fashioned 100mm canon macro - not USM. I did some shots today of hoverflies using the AI servo mode, guess what everyone is in focus.
It's worth a try, I was really amazed. Jon

I have been trying to tell people that for months, but what do I know

[eeyore]

Completely different, but on the same subject, has anyone else seen the do it yourself macro lens/extension tube on the photocritic website. It looks really cool, basically using a body cap, a piece of black pvc pipe and an old 50mm MF lens mounted backwards in the tube, you can get about 6x life size. I'm a bit concerned about the potential for getting grot on the sensor but I have a cunning plan involving a skylight filter to dust proof the set up. I'm building one this weekend so I will let you know how it goes...

[nightshade]

EEyore,take a look at my post 28:12:2005 05:15pm make your own ringflash,then you will have a complete set!

[Fourwings]

Originally Posted by digi

I have been trying to tell people that for months, but what do I know

I took notice of what you said sir, and excellent advice it was to.

[pxl8]

Out of interest I tried today with the 30D but found it harder than the gentle rocking technique I usually use. The AF did do a great job of tracking the subject and the shots were in focus but, and IMO it's a big but, I lost control over the exact focal plane and when you're dealing with a DoF of only a couple of mm that's not so good.

But the focus screen on the 30D is a massive improvement over the 300D and has cut manual focus times in half at least. It will be interesting to see how the AF servo copes with hoverflies in flight come the summer.

[glsammy]

Originally Posted by Fourwings

I took notice of what you said sir, and excellent advice it was to.

Me as well.....

[Jon]

You will be able to get the hoverflies in flight, I have done it, the trick is to get them in flight with a decent background! Jon

[pxl8]

Originally Posted by Jon

You will be able to get the hoverflies in flight, I have done it, the trick is to get them in flight with a decent background! Jon

That's why I have doubts about AF for this kind of work, typically I shoot hoverflies over grass which is what the AF tracks in on 99.9% of the time. The issue of hitting the sweet spot is still not solved either, I want the focus on the eye(s) before I call it a keeper...

[Jon]

Originally Posted by pxl8

That's why I have doubts about AF for this kind of work, typically I shoot hoverflies over grass which is what the AF tracks in on 99.9% of the time. The issue of hitting the sweet spot is still not solved either, I want the focus on the eye(s) before I call it a keeper...

Hmm, the ones I got were sideways as it were, have you thought of some kind of sweet smelling bait in a little container? Jon

[pxl8]

I was shooting male hoverflies guarding their "patch" whilst looking for females. Their patch is normally some random bit of grass. The shots are pretty much side on, like this one:



But the depending on how close the hoverfly gets the angle can change a lot to this:



In both cases tho the grass still makes a tempting target for the AF. Once the season kicks off properly I'll give it a go and I do have some plans for scent baiting with exotic flowers for some arty shots.

[Kev Lewis]

way better than anything I've achieved lol. Maybe worth a touch more dof?

[MalcolmX]

I would like to add an opinion ,the system using rocking and a1 servo mode is basicly flawedand will never give absolute focus as it depends on 1 element in the equation being stable ,although canon auto focus will achieve focal lock up to 180 mph this is negated if both elements are moving , it is made even worse if you manually focus and rock in this mode ,for my part if i use manual focus i only use a rail to move the camera and lens together .
i use a1 focus from a tripod with cord release and track using a ball head on the tripod ,i do admit that the pictures posted are acceptably sharp but backgrounds in my view need to be more blurred
smaller apertures giving smaller depth of field will enhance camera shake with this method .i welcome your views

[pxl8]

Originally Posted by MALCOLMX

i do admit that the pictures posted are acceptably sharp but backgrounds in my view need to be more blurred

Just to clarify, the shots I posted above were taken handheld with manual focus. In the two replies that followed one asked for more DoF and the other less, I found f/8 was about the best balance between dropping the background and leaving some leeway for focus errors.

Your technique with the tripod and rails sounds interesting, I'd love to see some of the in flight captures you've captured using it.

[eeyore]

Great shots pxl - better than anything I've done. For what is worth I think MalX is right up to a point, but only for things that dont run or fly away. With quick moving subjects I think tracking AF is the only way to go ( which is why I just upgraded my 300D which doesnt have it - to a 20D which does).

Perhaps Photoshop blur could be the way to minimise the distracting background without loosing Dof on the insect ? If you approve of such things ...

[pxl8]

Originally Posted by eeyore

With quick moving subjects I think tracking AF is the only way to go ( which is why I just upgraded my 300D which doesnt have it - to a 20D which does).

The problem with AF tracking on macro subjects is the desperate lack of DoF. As you have no real control over what part of the subject the AF is locking on to the chances of the eyes being in sharp focus is remote. Stop down to compensate and then diffraction rears its ugly head and you're back to soft images

With larger subjects (birds, sports, etc.) AF tracking works like a dream because the DoF isn't being measured by the mm.

Originally Posted by eeyore

Perhaps Photoshop blur could be the way to minimise the distracting background without loosing Dof on the insect ? If you approve of such things ...

I don't have any objections to post work but I've never been happy with selective blur for things like this as it always looks wrong. To make it work you really need to blur several layers different amounts to simulate the depth properly. Although I did hear about a plugin that looks interesting: www.dofpro.com

[Alan]

I have to agree with pxl8 for the most part - especially about focusing.

The best way to minimise distracting backgrounds at the picture taking stage would be to try to use a backdrop that's a reasonable distance from the subject. But of course this is nature photography, not studio portrait work, so we are limited. You have to take what comes sometimes.

As far as dof goes, a lenses inharent flaws - cromatic aberration for instance, are most obvious at the lenses widest aperture, whereas the detrimental effects of diffraction are most apparent at its narrowest aperture. In the centre of the lenses aperture (the mid range) these two effects are less noticable - know as the optimum or critical aperture (the sweet spot). For most lenses this is considered to be around F8. So for most macro situations it may be best to stick to around F8 (depending on light of course) to get the best of both worlds, and then go from there. Experementing is all part of the fun remember.

Whatever effect you desire, always has to be balanced by the limitations of the equipment and conditions - not to mention the behaviour of you subjects.

In the end as long as you personally are satified with the image, the image is right. It's all subjective.

You have to agree some of pxl8's macro images are superb whatever your preferences.

[eeyore]

Alan I'm confused now, I always thought the sweet spot reffered to the centre of the lens, as most abberations occur at the edge. Thus shooting with a cropped sensor such abberations were less of an issue because it can't see them. I'm probably wrong tho...

[Alan]

Yes you are right eeyore, but the abberation you are thinking of refers to the curvature of the lens, I was talking about chromatic abberations where you get a ghosting or fringing effects around out of focus areas.

[eeyore]

thanks for the clarification alan ... it doesnt take a lot to conuse me

[pxl8]

Today I had a chance to try AF servo with hoverflies in flight. Not a chance, even when I tried guiding the focus with full time manual the AF never locked on once. A quick change to manual and it was nice to know I hadn't lost my touch

[eeyore]

nice picture pxl, but whats that white thing in the background ?

I've used tracking auto on flutterbys without a problem but I guess hoverflys are too small/fast ,

[pxl8]

Thanks, I think the oof white thing is a dead stem in a planter left over from last year.