Bird Nest Photos

[Helen]

I find it incredible that there doesn't appear to be many posts from the people in favour. Why aren't they putting their argument forward?

[glsammy]

As a simple beginner at this game, I've no interest or desire to even attempt to take images of Nests. Rather play safe and leave well alone.

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by Helen

I find it incredible that there doesn't appear to be many posts from the people in favour. Why aren't they putting their argument forward?

Assuming the people in favour would be photographers, it does seem very strange given that this topic is being aired in the very forum that they might gravitate towards.


Should we therefore infer that photographers are not in favour, or indifferent of, photographing birds nests?


Why are those "in favour" using PMs and emails to get their message across?

[StuartDH]

Originally Posted by SteveA

Why are those "in favour" using PMs and emails to get their message across?

About half a dozen of them are from the various orgs that we've contacted, and as far as I know they're not members of the forum.

Others include our techies, trustees and other helpers who rarely post on the forum. On top of that there are others who posted images of nests in the Gallery, that were either deleted or put in quarantine, and if they'd rather not post in the thread then that's fine, it's really not an issue for us.

As I mentioned earlier, everyone's free to join in and we'd be happy for them to post their opinions, but for those that PM/email, I'm happy to just add their comments as above.

Anyway, back to the main issue. We're waiting to hear back from a few other orgs, but, for now, the ban will still stay in place. We're not fixing on a definite yes or no, just a 'no' at the moment. As a result, we'll be happy to reconsider the situation in the future, but only if we can guarantee the source of any images and have someone take care of the admin.

Having found nest images on RSPB, wildlife trusts, arkive, birds of britain, birdforum etc, it looks like many have taken the decision to allow them. If we're going to have them on WAB then we'd like to also display a notice (watermark), make them free of copyright and free to download, only uploaded by verified sources etc. As such, we'll aim to act more responsibly than many sites that already post nest pics. Unfortunately, in order to make sure that the above is done properly, this will mean that we'll simply be taking on more work than we can handle at the moment.

So essentially, for the time being, the ban will remain in place and we won't be publishing nest photographs, with the exception of nest box web cams.


Stuart

[SteveA]

Originally Posted by StuartDH

Having found nest images on RSPB, wildlife trusts, arkive, birds of britain, birdforum etc, it looks like many have taken the decision to allow them.

That's completely out of context Stuart - certain types of nest photographs may be allowed; eg. as species accounts or after much scrutiny in the case of species that are habituated to Man.

That is very different to allowing nest photographs to be placed in a Gallery that has a competitive slant.

I find it very strange that "contributors" to this website feel compelled to sending you PM's rather than posting for themselves.

[StuartDH]

Hi Steve,

Originally Posted by SteveA

certain types of nest photographs may be allowed; eg. as species accounts or after much scrutiny in the case of species that are habituated to Man.

Looking at your last post, does that mean you're actually in favour of nest images, as long as they're done properly and used responsibily in the right context?

I agree that we shouldn't post nest images in the Gallery. The Gallery is there for both species reference and photographic beauty and, because of the latter, we don't want to encourage photographs of nests just to get a nice picture. However, I should probably clarify that we're also talking about using them in the reference section, forum and newspaper areas of the site.

I take it that you accept it's OK if it's done like the RSPB, arkive, birds for britain etc, even though they don't carry a warning and some of the images are for sale? Birdforum also have nest images in a Gallery, although I understand that they've got such a large Gallery that some of their nest images may have been published in error. Birdforum don't have star ratings for their images, so if we removed our star ratings would you then be in favour of allowing nest images in the Gallery?

Following your comments above, if you could outline specifically where you feel certain nest images could be allowed then that would be very helpful. If we ever post nest images on the site (not in the Gallery), whilst obviously respecting the various laws and guidance from the big orgs, we'd also welcome any opinions on how we should operate to maintain the highest standards.

Cheers

Stuart

[SteveA]

Hi Stuart,

Originally Posted by StuartDH

Looking at your last post, does that mean you're actually in favour of nest images, as long as they're done properly and used responsibily in the right context?

Not in favour per se; in a balanced, educational article, they're fine.

Originally Posted by StuartDH

I agree that we shouldn't post nest images in the Gallery. The Gallery is there for both species reference and photographic beauty and, because of the latter, we don't want to encourage photographs of nests just to get a nice picture. However, I should probably clarify that we're also talking about using them in the reference section, forum and newspaper areas of the site.

Fine - drop the Gallery suggestion (wasn't that how this thread started?).

In reference articles yes, if they are written well by someone with real experience and knowledge of the species in question

In the Forum, there will be times (in my experience rarely) when a photograph of a nest may be used to illustrate a discussion (the Dipper nest shot in http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/fo...78-post23.html might be a good example of that). How would you deal with a thread that starts "What nest is this?"?

Originally Posted by StuartDH

I take it that you accept it's OK if it's done like the RSPB, arkive, birds for britain etc, even though they don't carry a warning and some of the images are for sale? Birdforum also have nest images in a Gallery, although I understand that they've got such a large Gallery that some of their nest images may have been published in error. Birdforum don't have star ratings for their images, so if we removed our star ratings would you then be in favour of allowing nest images in the Gallery?

No, I wouldn't be in favour of a Gallery that allowed nest images.

As I've said before, it's about context. It's all very well looking at images gleaned from search engines but that's removing them from the context in which they were conceived and published. I don't believe that the RSPB, in selling nest photographs by professionals, are condoning the taking of nest 'images' by all and sundry. You would be better off asking them about their reasons for including them in their catalogue.

Originally Posted by StuartDH

Following your comments above, if you could outline specifically where you feel certain nest images could be allowed then that would be very helpful. If we ever post nest images on the site (not in the Gallery), whilst obviously respecting the various laws and guidance from the big orgs, we'd also welcome any opinions on how we should operate to maintain the highest standards.

The welfare of the birds must be paramount.

[Jonny]

Oops..........I just tried to upload a couple of nest shots and didn't see the big bold, don't put up photo's of nests sign, sorry. I will say in my defence that both photo's were taken on a busy path and personally I can see nothing wrong with this as no bird was disturbed, anyway, I would not want to go too close to a swans nest, I would get pecked to death.............Jon

[pheonix]

I took some photos of Wren's nests recently for work, i had to as they had an effect on the works for that site (it also meant i could id the eggs without disturbing them). I have to say this is a one off and probably wouldnt take photos of nests at all unless they are very obvious to the public and well known, which most rare birds will not be..

[John]

Originally Posted by Jonny

Oops......... I will say in my defence that both photo's were taken on a busy path and personally I can see nothing wrong with this as no bird was disturbed...Jon

I took photos of a Great crested Grebe with it's chicks yesterday at Brandon Marsh, near Coventry. This nest is not far off the main path where all visitors to the reserve have to use. They will be for me to keep, not to place in a forum.

Whilst I agree that disturbance more than likely didn't take place with your photography that isn't the worrying factor. If we let one nest photo in we then open the doors to all types of nest photos, and with that brings in the nest disturbance factor.

Better ban the lot across the board then no one has the excuse to take the dodgy nest photo that can cause disturbance. After all the birds welfare is always paramount.

John