Bay Tree -Insect friendly?

[Swampthing]

Originally Posted by Cotham Marble

It's a long time since I worked in horticulture so I don't the details of current costs and practicalities, but it always struck me as increadibly wasteful when a plant that represented decades of growth was destroyed just because it had simply outgrown its position.

Certainly, with a plant like Bay, which commands a high sale price (£100 for 1.5 metre standard !) if I had one of 5 metres height I would certainly explore the possibilities of selling it before getting out the ax and bow saw.

Here's a site which shows some of the technology available today:

Nature First Ltd. Semi Mature Tree Planting and Transplanting

CM

I have just joined this website in order to get answers to questions like this. When I 1st moved into my current accomadation, a garden flat I planted a Bay tree (Laurel nobilis) it was only about 6" when I planted it, and I planted it in a protected corner of the garden near kitchen window. Now nearly 19 years later, it is a large tree (for some reason I thought they were only like small shrubs) about 25-30 feet. The housing association are saying they want to cut it down as they fear it may cause damage to the foundations. I would be sad to see it go and want to find out what kind of roots these trees give out, and if it is likely to cause structural damage. I think it is OK, as it is at ground level at the kitchen window, but the floor of the kitchen is a good 4 feet below the surface of the soil, and I think the foundations are quite deep. I jusy want to keep the tree really, I don't mind if they can find a way of keeping the height down, but I don't want it cut down if possible. I hope this makes sense and that someone can advise on the best solution.

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by Swampthing

I have just joined this website in order to get answers to questions like this. When I 1st moved into my current accomadation, a garden flat I planted a Bay tree (Laurel nobilis) it was only about 6" when I planted it, and I planted it in a protected corner of the garden near kitchen window. Now nearly 19 years later, it is a large tree (for some reason I thought they were only like small shrubs) about 25-30 feet. The housing association are saying they want to cut it down as they fear it may cause damage to the foundations. I would be sad to see it go and want to find out what kind of roots these trees give out, and if it is likely to cause structural damage. I think it is OK, as it is at ground level at the kitchen window, but the floor of the kitchen is a good 4 feet below the surface of the soil, and I think the foundations are quite deep. I jusy want to keep the tree really, I don't mind if they can find a way of keeping the height down, but I don't want it cut down if possible. I hope this makes sense and that someone can advise on the best solution.

Must admit I'd quite forgotten about this thread.

If the tree is within a few feet of a structural wall then from the persective of the Housing Association, felling and stump removal would undoubtedly be the cheapest solution.

Bay is a plant that can survive with contained roots, however the fact that it has grown 'free' may well mean that its roots are now impacting on the foundations. Even attempting root trimming in situ, or more radically lifting the whole tree for replanting may actually cause additional damage to the building.

Root trimming on a plant that high, next to a building is also not advisable in case it causes instability to the plant. In a way your tree is a victim of its own success.

You could ask the Housing Association to investigate the possibility of transplanting such a 'valuable' tree - usual advice would be a distance from nearest load bearing wall, equal to at least two thirds the ultimate height of the tree. And of course avioding sewer pipes etc.

Have to say though I'd be fairly pessimistic about being able to keep your Bay given the situation you have described.

CM

[Swampthing]

Originally Posted by Cotham Marble

Must admit I'd quite forgotten about this thread.

If the tree is within a few feet of a structural wall then from the persective of the Housing Association, felling and stump removal would undoubtedly be the cheapest solution.

Bay is a plant that can survive with contained roots, however the fact that it has grown 'free' may well mean that its roots are now impacting on the foundations. Even attempting root trimming in situ, or more radically lifting the whole tree for replanting may actually cause additional damage to the building.

Root trimming on a plant that high, next to a building is also not advisable in case it causes instability to the plant. In a way your tree is a victim of its own success.

You could ask the Housing Association to investigate the possibility of transplanting such a 'valuable' tree - usual advice would be a distance from nearest load bearing wall, equal to at least two thirds the ultimate height of the tree. And of course avioding sewer pipes etc.

Have to say though I'd be fairly pessimistic about being able to keep your Bay given the situation you have described.

CM

Thanks for the info CM. I don't think the Association would do anything to keep it, they will probably just cutit down, then get rid of the roots in some way. I can only think of putting some razor wire around the base to prevent them coming to cut it down (not really serious!) for some reason I don't think it poses a threat to the structure of the building, it probably would have shown by now. If they do chop it I want to keep the trunk and carve it like a totem pole.

[elleme]

All this talk of roots makes me a little bit nervous about mine. I planted out mine a year ago as it was starting to look a bit miserable, but that may have been because I'd most repotted it in an aluminium pot the year before and I wonder if there was some root scorching going on during hot days. It seemed reasonably healthy prior to the repotting. I've only got a small garden 24ft long and although it's at the far end, I'm concerned about the roots really dominating the space. Should I stick it back in a bigger/more insulated container with some fresh compost and hope for the best? I know they are seen as fine for containers, I just wonder whether that applies long term, say a decade or more. I might replant with a deciduous shrub in the space.

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by Swampthing

for some reason I don't think it poses a threat to the structure of the building, it probably would have shown by now.

It would be in the next few years when the problems are likely to arise, remember there is at least as much of your Bay below ground as there is above and tree roots are more than capable of displacing house foundations. Failure to address the problem once its recognised could affect any future claim on Buildings insurance. Buy a new Bay and pot grow it, and enjoy making your totem pole !

CM

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by elleme

All this talk of roots makes me a little bit nervous about mine. I planted out mine a year ago as it was starting to look a bit miserable, but that may have been because I'd most repotted it in an aluminium pot the year before and I wonder if there was some root scorching going on during hot days. It seemed reasonably healthy prior to the repotting. I've only got a small garden 24ft long and although it's at the far end, I'm concerned about the roots really dominating the space. Should I stick it back in a bigger/more insulated container with some fresh compost and hope for the best? I know they are seen as fine for containers, I just wonder whether that applies long term, say a decade or more. I might replant with a deciduous shrub in the space.

I've not heard of 'root scorching' and while I could conceive of this occuring if there are roots butting against the aluminium shell, it takes a lot of energy to raise the temperature of a whole pot and I'm doubtful this would be a major problem.

Three problems are more likely - either the larger pot was not matched with increased watering volume, or the new pot was substantially oversized for the particular plant leading to either, over watering, or the plant was expending its energies making roots to fill its newfound basement room.

Bays can suffer frost damage although in a sheltered spot in the South they are usually fine. However specimen plants are usually put into a cold green house for winter protection and this is the origin of pot growing them. Quite large pots are used - its difficult to give an absolute guide but I would say something of the order of a pot diameter and height equal to not less than a fifth the height of the plant. If the plant is going to stay out through the winter, wrapping the pot in fleece might be wise during the hardest frosts. A soil based compost - John Innes 3 or similar should be used for potting up, with a good amounts of drainage material (broken pot etc) in the base. Give lots of water in the summer and avoid water logging in the winter.

If you do intend to go back to pot growing I would not now move the Bay until the Spring.

The oldest container grown Bay I've seen was thirty years old, however I have seen photographs of Belgian plants over 10 metres tall that had been container grown since the 1930s.

CM

[elleme]

Thanks Cotham Marble. I've not heard of root scorching either, it was speculation on my part. When I took it out the roots were butting against the edge so it wasn't swamped by the pot. I think underwatering is more likely than overwatering with me being on the forgetful side. It has always been outside in winter, never wrapped and was quite sheltered when in a pot as it was right next to the west-facing wall of the house, now it's a little more exposed but still near to a fence. I'm in London anyway and not in a frost pocket.