How to reduce rat numbers.

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by eeyore

well yes - and no , most woodlands would not exist if trees were truly teritorial , they are competitive in a similar way that animals within a pack or colony are competitive for food and resources but not territorial per se

That's what I was saying: it's a spurious argument! However, plants (I'm not just talking about trees), by definition almost, since they are immobile, are 'territorial' - they cannot move and they cannot share the same geographical point with another plant (mainly). Their 'territorial' nature is best shown when they are seeds/seedlings - try growing any plant at a density of 1 per square millimetre; failure will, generally, follow!

[animartco]

Originally Posted by eeyore

no they aren't, some animals are territorial, some are colonialy teritorial, and a great number are migratory or transitional and have no fixed teritory at all - rats are theoretically colonially teritorial, but lone males are often transitional, and also an established colony would only repulse incomers if they either pose a threat, or if food is short.



no they can't - trees share "teritory" and roots even graft together - to suggest that trees are territorial is utterly ridiculous, even for your standard of "fact" (ents not withstanding )

To make things a bit clearer for people, as Eeyore suggests I should have explained that most animals only behave territorially when breeding. Salmon for example live in the ocean, but when they need to breed they go to a certain small area of a particular river and there they each select a tiny scoop of gravel in shallow water, and breed in it. In rivers trout have a 'swim' which thy defend against other trout. On land almost all birds and animals have breeding areas that they return to and defend either in pairs or as a colony. And pairs within any colony have a small territory surrounding their nest.
Of intelligent territorial animals like rat or humans, if the Alpha pair accept a newcomer then the rest of the group will, albeit sometimes reluctantly! So really Eeyore you are simply repeating what I have said, in this post. Still two ways of stating something hopefuly make it clearer to everyone.
However I realise that your statements make rats look more civilized than humans! I don't think this is the case. Rats do fight a lot! I very frequently hear them chasing. presumeably someone they see as an interloper, for thirty feet or more.

[animartco]

Originally Posted by thunder

Animartco, please explain what you mean when you say that rats are territorial - it is not clear from your posts, and thus causes confusion.

henrya

Hi Thunder.
Well here is an explanation. I hope it makes sense. Most mammals and birds (and a high percentage of other creatures) have territories the boundaries of which are seen quite clearly by the animal. These can be defended by a single animal ex cats (in the wild), or a group ex dogs. When you see dogs urinating every few yards they are marking their boundaries and indicating to other dogs that their 'pack' (themselves and owners) owns this bit of extended territory. Of course other dogs coming along disagree with them which is why you get the slanging matches when they meet.
rats are pack animals very like dogs. I am not sure whether there is an Alpha male and female as in a dog pack, but I think it is likely. In any communal mammal there is usually a 'pecking order' of some kind. Rats have underground runs specific to the colony, with corridors off to nest chambers, and the most central, safest, chamber will be held by the alpha pair. Rats also have 'runs' above ground which they use when foraging. In these runs they may encounter rats from other colonies and then they have slanging matches like the dogs. I imagine that the rat which is furthest from its home will back down.
Whether or not immigrants are tolerated always depends, as it does with man, on whether there are enough resources to go round.
I hope thi makes things clearer?
I suppose looking at the post I am saying that animals have two kinds of territories, the narrow 'breeding' one, and the extended 'foraging' one, which latter they are sometimes prepared to share until food becomes scarce.