Should I melt ice on garden pond?

[kiltoncomp]

Originally Posted by Cotham Marble

I'm puzzled by the idea that noxious gasses might build up. Ice is a fairly permeable material and it is only at great thicknesses where atmospheric sealing would occur. And unless the body of water is very deep, the cold will have slowed down all bacterial activity so that putrefaction will be largely on hold. In a temperate climate a frozen pond is a natural environment, unless it's supporting some tender species of plant or animal then there should be no need for intervention. - Or I have I missed something ?

CM

my pond is contains koi carp, which are apparently very dependent on good water quality,more so than other fish, this being the case, anything you can do to keep the water as clean as possible is a positive step,
the noxious gasses i mentioned can occur in decomposing material on the pond floor (fish excrement, dead plant material etc) which the fish disturb in their feeding amongst the debris so releasing gasses , albeit in small quantities, but if it cannot escape could soon build up,
as fish are more prone to suffer from stress in the winter months, i try to disturb the pond as little as possible to keep the balance right,
dead frogs in a pond can become highly toxic and can soon poison the water to the detriment of the fish life, the smaller the pond the higher the risk i would think,

[tcvarlh]

I'm puzzled? Why do you need to allow gases to dissipate from a frozen pond? Marsh gas will permeate ice as will nitrogen and oxygen. Life has slowed during the winter. Fish and amphibian oxygen needs are less. I never understood my Father's panic about a 2mm layer of ice on the pond in his garden. I would have thought placing a heat source on the ice was detrimental as is the breaking of any ice? I can see that some form of opening would be needed to enable feeding but fish eat so little during the winter months as the piscine metabolism slows so that even this is enigmatic.
Putrefaction is also slowed, as previously mentioned, so what good does any of the above do?
Confused!

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by tcvarlh

I'm puzzled? Why do you need to allow gases to dissipate from a frozen pond? Marsh gas will permeate ice as will nitrogen and oxygen. Life has slowed during the winter. Fish and amphibian oxygen needs are less. I never understood my Father's panic about a 2mm layer of ice on the pond in his garden. I would have thought placing a heat source on the ice was detrimental as is the breaking of any ice? I can see that some form of opening would be needed to enable feeding but fish eat so little during the winter months as the piscine metabolism slows so that even this is enigmatic.
Putrefaction is also slowed, as previously mentioned, so what good does any of the above do?
Confused!

Oh well that's two of us then

CM

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by tcvarlh

Marsh gas will permeate ice

Not sure about that. There was a documentary recently that mentioned methane being liberated from the bottom of lakes. Holes were drilled in the ice and the released methane lit with huge flames being produced!

Jim

[kiltoncomp]

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

Not sure about that. There was a documentary recently that mentioned methane being liberated from the bottom of lakes. Holes were drilled in the ice and the released methane lit with huge flames being produced!

Jim

i may be wasting my time then, but in the event of the pond freezing over again, i will follow the same procedure as before on the basis that i lost no fish during the freezing period and they arrived nice and healthy in the spring,
as tescos say "every little helps"

Brian

[camo]

"I'm puzzled?.... .... Confused!"

Tc

"Oh well that's two of us then"

CM

Your arguments are concentrating on larger more natural ponds with a balanced self supporting micro environment. The majority of garden ponds are overstocked with fish and do not have the supporting system to neutralise waste. I appreciate Fish will go into a semi torbid state however they still require some oxygen and an ice covering must reduce the capacity of the water to hold sufficient oxygen for long periods of ice cover.

Roy

[tcvarlh]

Fair enough I will bow to greater knowledge. Everyday should be a school day. Sorry Dad, you were not being a p then. God he'll be unbearable now.
h

[Mr C]

We got away with it last Winter and that led to complacency. 9 of our largest fish have died through suffocation, although the little 'uns seem to be OK. The ice on our reasonable size pond was an inch thick and although I did try and melt a hole with warm/hot water, it didn't provide the necessary air hole for the toxic gases to escape. Although the weather has improved a little, and the air temperature has been 6/7 degrees for the last few days, I still have ice over 50% of the pond. I have purchased an ice-free ventilation system from a local aquatic centre (£10) and will wait to see if this improves things. It is an old model, German made (Heissner TZ512), but was easy to assemble and connect up. I also have a pond heater, which I haven't ever used, but will now pay better attention to long spells of really cold weather. Hope this helps someone !!

[paddy]

last year, i opened up small holes with hot pans, and my friend didn't; he ended up with about 7 bloated dead frogs and i didn't. While 'artifical' nature ponds (i.e. very heavily planted) can probably cope with short term freezes, i think when it runs to a couple of weeks its a good idea to gently open a couple of holes. I did this recently and could distinctly smell gases afterwards.
It's a question of how much dead and decayed plant life is likely to be lying in the bottom, i suspect.
Whenever i've opened a hole (usually at the edge), i'm not back indoors before starlings are bathing in it - probably the equivalent of a hot bath....

[nightshade]

I have said here before, overfill the pond before it freezes completely, then after it has a good skin of ice melt a hole then remove at least 2" of water
this helps acting like a double glazing. I don't have much trouble with winter deaths in the pond.