Gardener familiar with Endives needed!

[JennyS]

Hi, this one could be a 'I need a vegetable gardener' request.....

The re-posted picture below is definitely a member of the Chicory family, but the leaves are too wrong to even be a variation on Chicory (cichorium intybus)
Saw an illustration of Endive (C.endiva) leaves which look to be a better match - has anyone let their endives bolt, and did they look like this?! Might also be known as radicchio or radicchio lettuce.

[bogweevil]

These things come up all over our allotment site and are clearly a feral form of the endives grown in huge numbers by continental allotment holders. They have no flavour but are very easy to grow, so I suppose that is their main charm.

Technically these are Chicorum endivia but the important thing is that glyphosate makes them history toot sweet.

A Veg Grower

[JennyS]

Hi bogweevil - thanks for the confirmation

[Tiggrx]

I would say that this is Chicory (Cichorium intybus) - Endive has the flower-stalks much thickened. Most plants grown as Endive (as well as Raddichio) are varieties of C. intybus rather than C. endivia.

[JennyS]

Hi Tiggrx - but the leaves really don't look right for variations on Chicory....
I ran the photo past the H4 recorder and he wondered if it might be Cichorium endivia subsp. endivia, but now I'm floundering again!

[Tiggrx]

Originally Posted by JennyS

Hi Tiggrx - but the leaves really don't look right for variations on Chicory....
I ran the photo past the H4 recorder and he wondered if it might be Cichorium endivia subsp. endivia, but now I'm floundering again!

Sorry to keep you floundering

I think the flower stalk character I mentioned above rules out C. endivia.

As for the leaves, there are many varieties of C. intybus grown with a range of leaf shapes. They are split into a number of groups. I think if a variety of say the Foliosum Group (the wide leaved ones often seen in supermarkets - eg. 'Witloof') was to bolt it might look rather like your plant - but not much like the typical wild plant.

[JennyS]

Hi Tiggrx - took a while to re-find the thread and reply.....

I think the flower stalk character I mentioned above rules out C. endivia.

As for the leaves, there are many varieties of C. intybus grown with a range of leaf shapes. They are split into a number of groups. I think if a variety of say the Foliosum Group (the wide leaved ones often seen in supermarkets - eg. 'Witloof') was to bolt it might look rather like your plant - but not much like the typical wild plant.

The plants were growing on a roadside but apparently "the typical wild plant" is infrequent in Co.Cork........an escaped 'Witloof' or similar would make sense.
I've got a problem with a lot of id's in not knowing which features can be variable and which are fixed......
What would the correct/closest botanical name be, and thanks for your patience!

[Tiggrx]

Originally Posted by JennyS

What would the correct/closest botanical name be

It is probably Cichorium intybus Foliosum Group but safest to just call it Cichorium intybus maybe with a comment that it is a cultivated form

[JennyS]

Thanks Tiggrx

[bogweevil]

I rather think official names for cultivated crop plants are spurious.