Anyone with knowledge of copyright law?

[Jenny W]

I'm currently creating a website about one of the Coleoptera families and am after images for the species accounts pages. I e-mailed another website ages ago asking permission to use their photos on my site (as my own collection is very limited!). The photos are of carded specimens.

Anyway, they never replied and it doesn't look like they are going to! So....as I'm a bit artistic (not much, but just about enough!), I would like to draw pictures from the photos on this site (or others) to put up on my site.

Does anyone know if is it legal for me to draw a picture from someone else's photograph without permission from the owner of the photograph? I'm not a good enough artist to draw the beetles without referring to a photo, so if I were to draw them I would need a photo to 'copy'.

If I do need permission from the photo owners then I'm back to square one

Thanks in advance

Oops....sorry I just thought that this is nothing to do with wildlife and for that I apologise. I have just tried to look this up on the internet and all I get is American websites (I'm guessing the law in the US is different to the UK?).

[pressld2]

Hi Jenny,

An interesting question and I'm afraid I really don't know the answer. What I do know is you don't need permission to draw from any of my photos - feel free!

Also I think that most copyright law is international these days so I would expect that UK and US laws in this area would be very close if not identical.

Dave P.

[Lancashire Lad]

Unless the rights have been transferred, all photographs are the copyright product of the photographer, so technically you could (other than in a few defined circumstances) be breaching the photographers copyright if your drawing substantially resembled the photographic image.

See deteils here: -
Intellectual Property Office - Permitted uses of copyright works

(The page is on the govenment website referred to by JeffH, in regard to a recent breach of copyright of a WAB member's photograph).

However, I'm sure that if you were to PM the WAB members who took photographs from which you would intend to do your drawings, most, if not all, would be happy enough to give you permission.

For your own peace of mind, and to cover yourself legally, it would be best to retain copies of such permissions, just in case of any future misunderstandings, regarding permissions given.

Regards,
Mike.

[Jonners]

Hi Jenny. I found this link on the internet which might be helpful. It does have a disclaimer that states that it shouldn't be considered a definitive guide nor as legal advice, but it looks fairly sound (IMHO), and as Dave suggests, seems to pretty much mirror the US legal info out there.

[ron1863]

Like Dave, I have no idea regarding copyright law of painting of photographs but you can certainly paint any of mine

[Jenny W]

Hi All,

Many thanks for the info and the links - helpful indeed. And thanks to those who offered permission to reproduce your photos. I will PM anyone for permission/confirmation if I do decide to go down the drawing route.

I will try and get in touch with this other website again too....

[Kayleigh]

You can use mine but doubt they are good enough lol..

[JeffH]

Hi Jenny

A painting or drawing based on a photograph is known (in copyright terms) as a 'derivative work' and unless the photograph is your own you will, in my opinion, require the photographer's consent to 'copy' it.

I've now sold quite a few prints to artists and they have usually asked beforehand if it's OK to use my images as a basis for their own work. Needless to say, I have always given them specific consent (in writing) to do so.

Hope that helps

Jeff
(Schedule 1 Licence holder for Avocets, Kingfishers and Barn Owls)

[Jenny W]

Cheers Kayleigh and Jeff - all useful stuff

[Jason Green]

First-off, it sounds like a good idea for a site, good luck!

Now, I think this is quite simple, really. Jenny, you asked a website owner for their permission to use their photographs of carded specimens on your site. They failed to answer so you now wish to draw their pinned coleopteran pics for use on your site. Therefor essentially you will be drawing a dorsal view of these insects. Correct? If so, it is simply that - dorsal views, and not as if their photos were taken in the field and you copied them exactly including perhaps artistically-captured backgrounds! So it's not copying in my opinion, simply using their images as a base to copy the insect's aesthetics that you could get another way.

Also, you asked for their permission - you took reasonable steps. I'm obviously not saying it is therefor OK for people generally to go ahead without permission who are obviously copying, it isn't - but you did what was expected on your part. Maybe offer to give them a good write-up and obvious credit?

As a third point, feel free to use any images you find on my website with credit!

Well, these are just my opinions, and I am the same as them - a website owner and photographer. Therefor my stance on this is the same as it would be if I was in their position.