The chicken and the egg!

[Sodfoster]

Hola People

Just wanted some advice, basically I graduated with a 2.1 Degree in Ecology and conservation in 2007 since then I have been involved with doing stuff like the NARRS survey, the plantlife survey etc... and I also work for a consultancy as a field surveyor for 6 months doing newt surveys, reptile surveys, water vole surveys and the occasional Bat survey also due to the amount of newt work I did I have gained my Licence from NE, the problem is I still don't seem to be getting a look in for grad or assistant roles!

The two main problems I find are:

1. I still seem to need more experience, although at the same time I still have to earn a living!

Now this is no generalisation but doing the field surveying work we where paid very little and I had to travel 250miles each week there and back to do the work and with rising fuel cost this year I was actually losing money doing this but I stuck at it because Its what I want to do. Now at the same time out of the 14 field surveyors who I worked with only 4 of us seemed to be independent (ie not getting support from the parents be that hand outs or living at home) so what I want to know is how do I get experience whilst working a day job for 40 hours a week and have money to pay rent and bills at the end of the month (so please don't say work part time etc..).

2nd Point and this has already been touch upon in a previous thread by Holly tree (alright our kid!) whom I work with this year, and that is by trying to get into consultancy work we are always asked if we have "report writing experience" (Its not like we haven't just spent the last 3 years writing reports and completing projects not to mention a 12,000 word dissertation!!).

So could some one please tell me where we are supposed to get this from if we can't get a job? Because most voluntary work seems to only be applicable to fieldwork (or manual labour as we found out with one consultancy whom I shall not mention here! All I can say about them is they wanted 3 of us to lay 6000 reptile traps out in 4 days!) and surely its something that can be picked up and tailored so it is in line with how a company or organisation would like it to be done!

The problem I seem to find is I keep coming across the "chicken and the egg" situation, everything is a catch 22.

Now don't get me wrong I know its not impossible and if your passionate about it you'll get there eventually and I have met some great people so far who have offered plenty of advice.

I guess I'm just frustrated, sorry to rant people you seem like a good bunch if anyone has anything to offer that would be great.

Sodfoster over and out.

[Gill Catton]

Just hang in there keep being as involved as you can - join as many relevant societies as you can afford- particularly IEEM, go to the workshops and conferences (which are often on weekends) again as many as you can and network as much as you can (try not to rant in their general direction!).

Perhaps specify that you don't have consultancy report writing experiance but append a report from your Uni work. Perhaps even knock up a fake report using the data from your field work.

Regarding fieldwork closer to home, find out who your county council uses to manage its roads (specifically the soft estate- verges trees etc) and contact them see if they have work. Also for major motorways see who is the Highways Agency soft estate management contractors and do the same with them. Check with local developers and see who they use for their ecology work and contact them, be proactive - it can't hurt. Also don't contact them just once, do it every couple of months or even more during the field season. put a reminder in your diary to do so.

We are rather now at the end of the field season (unless you can do birds) so perhaps concentrate on the conferences and workshops and then chase the fieldwork again come January / February when companies will be programming in their newt surveys etc....

I have been there myself and I know its difficult - I have done my fair share of 'manual labour' as its part of the job I'm afraid - I still do the odd bit now nine years into the job! (though I admit what was being asked of you was a little extreme) one day you'll get there - it may be as much luck as hard work, but that's the way life works.

Hope this helps.

[Sodfoster]

Cheers Gill

Great advice actually about the highway agency etc.. I never thought of finding that out!


The manual labour has never been a problem its just that particular consultancy did take the micheal out of all the field surveyors they employed this year!

Also another thing you may have advise on but where should I put things like my GCN licence or IEEM membership on my CV?? Im not to sure if I have set it out right.

Cheers

[almostnormal]

yes!!! put the ieem membership and the GCN licence on your CV! put them in the skills bit and make sure they stand out...

as for getting a job...hang in there. I volunteered for 2 years before i landed a job. i'd join your local bat group (get the experience now, it always helps), and see if you can get onto any residential wardening holidays - lots of experience and usually they provide accomodation. i'd also suggest you have a chat with your local ecology peoples, or even the rspb (i did mostly gis volunteering with them and it turns out to be the one massively transferrable skill that lots of vols and graduates don't have) about what volunteering opportunities there are about. you'd be suprised the types of things you can get experince of with the big ngo's.

i spent a good long while behind bars (in pubs, no in the criminal sense) and waiting tables (full time at that) while i was voluntering, but its all worth it!

hope this helps - i know its esy for us to say it because we're in alredy, but it really is orth the effort...

[Highland Damsel]

Hey

This may seem like going backwards but there are two things i would suggest, if you are under twenty six there is something called Project Scotland, there may be something similar elsewhere in Britain. This is a government supported scheme that gives young people full on real work experience, and sort of paid with an allowance, a budget for PPE and for training, accomodation is often provided. Placements are for multiples of three months, up to two years i think. We had a couple of Project Scotland Rangers and one of them has become a seasonal and has a great future in conservation. I wish there was something out there when i was younger it kind of breaks the catch 22.

The other thing that is worth looking into is the BTCV Natural Talent Scheme, their main qualification is enthusiasm and interest and there are specialist subjects and no age limit. Look around there may be other things like this.

B.

[nightshade]

Good advice to join a Bat group; but don't do what a lot of career people do and walk all over the grass roots members

[cmullen]

About Project Scotland! They lost their government funding so only have about 20 projects going, and they only give you a project for 3 months unfortunately. It's still good to look into if you're in Scotland. I volunteered last year with my local biological records centre through them and would love to do more volunteering but no funding! That was a little diversion but hope it helps.

[mantajohn9]

I found myself in a similiar situation when I left college. When I was at school conservation and ecological careers were started to be banded as a great path to take. My careers advisor informed me that they were loads of jobs and careers for the taking. I left school in '91 went to college (polytechnic then) and specialised in terrestrial ecology and conservation. I completed my course and got a reasonable honours degree, together with a massive pile of debt. Unfortunately the only work available was voluntary which at the time the dole office wasn't happy about so spent some time working on the bins. Grants were available to enter teaching which I decided to take. 14 years later I'm still in the classroom and still enjoying it. I may not be at the front end of ecological research or working on massive conservation projects but it does still enable me to stay in touch with a subject I enjoy so much.

Maybe something to consider the profession always needs people who are passionate about their subject.

[hannahpanda]

I also graduated with a 2:1 in Ecology and Conservation but this year.
Its worrying me that people like you and others on here who have more experience than me are struggling to find jobs! I have worked for a consultancy doing GCN surveys but I cannot get a license until I KNOW I will be doing surveys next year. It seems like a degree isnt really worth much, everyone is more concerned with experience, and like you say report writing (after we've been on an assignment based course writing assignments and reports practically every single week)

Definitely mention your license and IEEM membership on your CV!!!!

I simply cannot afford to volunteer, most places are a 1hr drive away from me and I cant afford the petrol! I've applied for paid survey work down south but I have heard nothing, I presume it is because I live too far away even though they usually pay for over night stays etc.

Im struggling to even get a job in retail because I have a degree!!! My Uni friends are in the same situation.

[cmullen]

Yeah I graduated last year and of the 100 people or so that were doing zoology/ecology/conservation I think less than 10 are actually doing something in the field. Most people give up after a while I think or go back into education. It's definately the love of conservation that has to keep you going, especially when you see graduate engineers etc getting 30k in their first job a week after they graduate! Grr!

I'm in the same boat as everyone but I don't have as much experience! I can't afford to volunteer for a while as I'm working full time to fund myself though a p/t masters which also eats into my time at weekend so I can't volunteer then either! It will all work out eventually! Haha.