Getting a permanent job in Ecology is so hard for a budding ecologist, please help!

[Holly Tree]

Hello!

I have been trying to get a permanent ecology job in consultancy and conservation for over two years now, but despite my best efforts I have had no luck. My frustration has reached the end of its tether, so I was hoping that if I share my experience, some of you nice people might be able to share your views please?

I graduated with a 2.1 in Biology in 2006 and immediately set off to fulfil my life long dream of working in the environmental sector. I began by volunteering for my local environmental records centre, which gave me lots of field survey and GIS experience, but in interviews for jobs I either did not have enough experience or was advised to get experience with protected species. Since then I have volunteered for two ecology consultancies, my local council and two different Wildlife Trusts. I am currently working for an ecology consultancy as a field surveyor on a 6 month contract, so combining all this I have now managed to gain lots of survey experience of protected species and mitigation, along with a range of other fauna and flora, and I have a Great Crested Newt licence.

I know that I am lacking experience in the admin side of ecology work but this is something that so far, I have not been able to get into. I get really good feedback in job interviews now, but I never get the job and get told they have hired the person with the most experience.

I do not understand how anyone can break into the environmental sector when all companies and organisations seem to care about is experience, and will not give young budding ecologists a chance. There seems to be a lack of Senior Ecologists as there are lots of these jobs being advertised all the time, but I am not surprised if it is this hard to start a career in ecology.

If anyone has had any similar experiences I would love to hear from you, and any advice would be much appreciated!

[Fritillary]

I have just finished my phd in Ecology and your commentary worries me
I found very difficult even to find a volunteer job. I am very enthusiast and I have left happy bosses with my part time jobs. However always looking for a volunteer job or a paid job in nature it is just too difficult. They ask too many things that I wonder if I will have a job one day in this sector. Sometimes I have the impression that the jobs given are only for a exclusive circle of people related. Maybe the children of someone that work in a reserve have more posibilities than someone coming from the exterior.... I just wonder

How we can get more experience if they never want to give jobs to people without too much experience?

[JimboUK]

Yeah tell me about it!

I have more than adequate experience, a 2.1 and just completing a masters in Ecology and still no luck! It seems as though they want people that are over qualified for some jobs! Even 'graduate/trainee' positions seem to want people with lots of experience.

What I don't understand about the 'admin side' as you put it, is that this is surely the 'easier' part to pick up. I've heard from numerous people within conservation of poor quality identification and ecology skills they have found in reports written by consultancies. The funny thing is, some consultants I meet don't seem to have much of an ecology background and have got a job straight after their degree in environmental science with little ecology teaching and with little work experience because they know how to write a report!!!

I am genuinely mad about the situation but hey, what can we do about ?

[moo]

I'm in a vaguely similar position, but am not interested in consultancy (having had a brief go and realised I prefer communities to species ).

So...Is it only consultancy you're interested in? - is the main question. It seems (from my somewhat limited experience!) that many of those taken on by consultancies have experience in working for a stat body like natural england/EA first - it certainly helps with understanding the systems and also with local contacts. Not sure what it's like round you, but it's quite scary how well everyone in ecology or environment jobs round here knows each other - and how fast news travels! I also know a lot of people will take random/not good jobs with EA etc as chances of movement within the organisation are good.

If it has to be consultancy then I'd be targetting my volunteering to rack up licenses asap - you must have a local bat group for example. Also make sure you get membership at whatever level possible of IEEM or similar - do the workshops, make the contacts.

Not sure that's very helpful, but good luck!

[Holly Tree]

Hey, thank you for all your posts!

Fritillary,
I completely agree with you, it sometimes feels as if it’s not what you know, but who you know, and it should not be like that! You should be able to find voluntary work though, but some of the animal groups can be hard to get hold of. I have found the wildlife trusts are good, and if organisations do not answer your emails, try calling them too. I would hope your phd would put you in a much better position then me and help you move up the ladder more quickly, although unbelievably I saw an Assistant Ecologist job advertised the other day requesting that a phd would be an advantage. I was hoping that was a mistake!

JimboUK,
Yes it is totally infuriating, my friend has recently started a job with a consultancy and they have sent her out to do all kinds of surveys that she has never done before. She said that she does not feel experienced enough to do them on her own with another person who is in the same boat.

In interviews I have been asked whether I have had experience of desktop studies, report writing etc with a company, and although I do not have this experience yet, I do not see it as a huge problem. I have seen reports at work and they are far less complex than the reports I had to write at University, and doing data searches is not hard. Oh well we just have to keep plugging away until someone notices us!

Moo,
Thank you for your advice, it is very useful. At the moment I think consultancy is definitely what I want to get into, I have considered stat body's but I thought they would probably be even more competitive to get into then anything else. Although maybe getting an admin job with a stat body could be a way in, but I would be worried that as they would know I want to be an ecologist in the long term, they would not want to employ me for such a position.

At the moment I only have Graduate membership of IEEM and I have attended lots of courses with various organisations this year, including Phase 1 as this is another area I have not had an opportunity to experience. Also I am working towards my dormouse licence, and I would love to be able to work towards a bat licence. I heard it takes 3 years to get enough experience and finding bat people to go out with seem to be few and far between. Despite all these obstacles I am determined and I am not going to give up! Do you mind me asking how you got your first job with a consultancy? Oh and what did you mean by everyone knowing each other? It seems to be that way round here too.

[Gill Catton]

Hello!
Right well I am an ecological consultant and I can tell you that you are doing everything right Holly and it is only a matter of time it really is. Keep on with the field ecology and the key thing also though is meeting people. Try to wangle field work where you are supporting another ecologist rather than working solo. The next best thing to lots of experiance is networking. join societies, the bat conservation trust is a good one, also the mammal society. Perhaps even better is to join IEEM at their graduate level, you will then have the opportunity to do reduced cost workshops and training courses, and more importantly you'll meet people and all decent consultancys recognise the value of IEEM membership and will also recognise that you're serious. I know its all money but it will help in the end.

For those of you being forced to work outside of your comfort zone keep speaking up, don't stay quiet and if you keep getting ignored look for a new job, such consultancies that continually send out people to do work they are not experianced enough to do or work people so hard that they are exhausted and are liable to make mistakes as a result or crash on the way home, are going to run into big trouble one day.

Good luck folks, feel free to pm me if you have any further questions

[hanbagz]

Hello,
I can completely empathise with everybody. If consultancy is something people are interested in I can recommend the MSc in Environmental Consultancy that I did at Newcastle Uni. I know it's not for everyone and is quite expensive but I graduated in 2007 and the uni were really good at getting contacts for people and many people from my course have gone on into consulting. It's also worth applying to general construction companies who have an 'environmental' department rather than strictly environmental consultancies.

Funnily enough I ended up working for 7 months at Durrell in Jersey instead as a zookeeper, and am now having a crack at trying to get into conservation back in the UK. I must be a glutton for punishment No joy so far, I'm amazed at how much experience is required purely for volunteer positions! It can be disheartening when you work your butt off at uni, do lots of volunteering and still don't get a look in, but I'm trying to stay positive. Good luck everybody!!

[Dipti]

Hi all,

I work for a recruitment company called that deals with environmental jobs. Im not sure what your opinions are on Recruitment Companies but if you are still looking for an ecologist position please feel free to email me your CV

***

Links removed - please only advertise via the google adverts

Thanks

Stuart

***

[sophiemay]

Hey,

Im quite new to this site, I graduated this July with a 2.1 degree in Ecology and Biogeography, i totally find it hard to get into anything ecology related, i recenelty moved to cornwall to be with my finance and just started going out with the local bat group as i really want to get my bat licence and do bat ecology work, but its really hard to get ahold of someone to train you for your licence. i want to get it within the next year. But at the same time im trying to get out with the mammal group to get experience with general trapping, Im not sure who else to approach to get some experience does anyone have any tips for me??? or anyone know of someone who can train me for my licence down here???
but im going to stick with it however hard it is to get into it and get noticed. Im saving to do some workshops with IEEM which i think will really help.

thanx

Sophie

[The Woodman]

From a no bias perspective, my wife is a NE roost visitor bat licence trainer and what really hacks her off are people who want to benefit from her considerable time and effort as a volunteer trainer and as soon as they get their licence, they become instant bat consultants who rarely do the job the were trained for i.e. roost visit volunteer bat workers resulting in putting more pressure on a dedicated hard core of folks who really care about bat conservation over financial gain.

Believe me, as a bat licence holder myself with nearly 25 years experience, you never stop learning and if I was able to give any tips, I would say put yourself out as much as you can afford to. Travel to help research students with projects, join a bat (special interest) group and join in with events like checking bat boxes etc.

Every year, the Mammal Society publish a list of who's doing what in the project world. I've made some lifelong invaluable contacts by cold calling and offering to help with field work.

I think it's difficult to become a good all round ecologist. Maybe try to specialise and finally, keep a weather eye open on the political scene, politicians can influence the drivers that keep the great and the good in jobs.

[Jim Ford]

I think the majority of students that qualify in environmental/ecology related subjects are doomed to end up as personnel officers (or 'human resource managers' as they're currently called)!

Just me being cynical!

Jim

[wild flower]

Do keep trying all. It is worth it. Having finished school(many years ago) with no qualifications I can tell you that after a lot of hard work I am now working as an ecologist and I regret nothing.

Best of luck

[sophiemay]

I can totally understand you getting annoyed at people who gain a licence to jump straight into a well paying job, i have noticed a lot on these bords people just used it to get into work without actually wanting to work in bat conservation. Personnal i want my licence so i can go and help my local bat group do their surveys and be able to do roost visits. i fully enjoy going out and being very grateful that i can see such a great british mammal in the wild.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by The Woodman

From a no bias perspective, my wife is a NE roost visitor bat licence trainer and what really hacks her off are people who want to benefit from her considerable time and effort as a volunteer trainer and as soon as they get their licence, they become instant bat consultants who rarely do the job the were trained for i.e. roost visit volunteer bat workers resulting in putting more pressure on a dedicated hard core of folks who really care about bat conservation over financial gain.
Believe me, as a bat licence holder myself with nearly 25 years experience, you never stop learning and if I was able to give any tips, I would say put yourself out as much as you can afford to. Travel to help research students with projects, join a bat (special interest) group and join in with events like checking bat boxes etc.

Every year, the Mammal Society publish a list of who's doing what in the project world. I've made some lifelong invaluable contacts by cold calling and offering to help with field work.

I think it's difficult to become a good all round ecologist. Maybe try to specialise and finally, keep a weather eye open on the political scene, politicians can influence the drivers that keep the great and the good in jobs.

You see I get tarred with this opinion all the time and I find it very frustrating. I got a consultant ecologist job in the middle of my roost visitor licencing training. I was a graduate living at home and I got offered my dream job - one in the world of development where maybe I could make a real change for the better for wildlife - what was I supposed to do turn it down and work in a pub and carry on volunteering instead?

For the next two or three years I remained a member of the local bat group and BCT but never got called to do a roost visit - I got involved in a couple of local surveys with the BCT but not many because at the same time I was trying to get better at birds and plants so that I could do better by them in my work too. All this all takes up valuable time especially if you also have a boyf who you'd quite like to keep who has limited interest in these subjects.

These days all of my volunteering is for bird survey because this is my best area. However, I still work for bat conservation in my work as opposed to on a voluntary basis. A number of my colleagues do lots of voluntary bat work - in addition to the work they do in their job, but then they don't do bird of invert volunteer work - no one can do it all.

It is seemingly assumed that if you work on a professional basis you are somehow not working for bat conservation which seems very odd when to me it seems that you are working for bat conservation in one of the hardest areas there is - the seemingly relentless world of development. Yes I am sure there are a few professional who are corrupt and do the work only for the money and only tell clients what they want to hear but in my entire career I have not met one such person.

It seems to me that you need professional bat workers. You need people on the inside advising developers, fighting for bats trying to preserve them in the environment. And frankly the best place to be to learn about both bat ecology and conservation and planning law and how to work with difficult clients and how to get the very best for bats is on the job not as a pure volunteer.

Please don't assume that because a person is experiancing financial gain and doesn't get to do much bat volunteer work that they don't passionately care or that they don't work towards conservation as best as they possibly can.

Hopefully soon they are going to come up with bat licence training for consultants by consultants then maybe we won't get this resentment and negative feeling from local bat groups.

Although I suspect it won't

Huge apologies for this soapbox novel but its something I get quite upset about

[sophiemay]

Gill, I think a lot of people would the same, if you got offered a job you really wanted you wouldnt turn it down. I would do the same im sure if i ever get the chance!!!
if you dont mind me asking how did you go about getting someone to train you for your bat roost licence? i have written to Natural England but have had no reply as of yet!!! grrrrrr

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by sophiemay

Gill, I think a lot of people would the same, if you got offered a job you really wanted you wouldnt turn it down. I would do the same im sure if i ever get the chance!!!
if you dont mind me asking how did you go about getting someone to train you for your bat roost licence? i have written to Natural England but have had no reply as of yet!!! grrrrrr

I joined all sorts of groups and associations when I ended up back at home after Uni. I wasn't getting anywhere with job applications so I decided I needed to learn more and meet more people involved so one of the groups I joined was the local bat group which I think I cames across surfing the internet. They were and indeed are all lovely people and instantly started helping me learn about bats and then helped me start training.

[sophiemay]

yeh i have been out on two bat roost visits with the local bat group, they are so nice and its great to get out and learning more about them im hoping i can get trained through them in the new year whilst doing other groups to learn more ecology surveys, since uni did not really take us out enough to really get used to doing them, all i really got experience in was freshwater ecology from my final year project which i did

[The Woodman]

Gill, I did say at first that I had no particular bias either way and I do not quite see how you get tarred with this (my?) opinion.

Bat conservation has moved on so much since the advent of roost visitor licensing. In the early days volunteer bat workers covered virtually every aspect of bat conservation work that fell under the auspices of the Wildlife and Countryside Act and its schedules. Certain aspects later devolved to DEFRA and now it’s back with NE.

From your commendable soapbox reply, you have done exactly what I tried to say, that is, you worked hard, qualified and were offered your dream job that you took. You don’t say whether you attained your license, but I guess you did as you say you weren’t called out to do a single roost visit. The managers of the system must be in a position to answer that one, whether it was EN (NE) or their bat line contractors. I know from experience that those who are able to go on a call at the drop of a hat in the height of the season often get phoned first and those who cannot go for whatever reason especially if they can’t go for a number of requests, may not get asked as frequently. That’s human nature, maybe not fair or equitable, but that’s how life works.

I agree with virtually everything you say and I don’t assume that a person who is experiencing financial gain doesn’t care for conservation etc. I am in that position myself.

Professional bat/species ecologists – consultants are needed and I agree with you again. They should learn more about bats than a volunteer – that’s exactly what I mean by the Roost visitor license not being the relevant qualification. The demand for them is increasing. The pressure put on the few who are in the position of being able to train them for the only available relevant license is increasing. I was conveying the feelings of my wife who gives up a lot of her time to do this for people and bats and although my choice of words “hacked off” may have not been the most appropriate, that’s how she feels – not my feelings – hers.

There is training available from two sources – BCT & IEEM - that I know of for bat consultants and very good it is too. What the system lacks is a recognized qualification that demonstrates proficiency and knowledge in the subject. Roost visitor training doesn’t cover half the required fields.

Those who come out of Uni with an ecology degree will often say that their particular field of interest wasn’t covered in enough depth. You did exactly what I was trying to advise, you said in your post at 1.45 that after Uni you joined all sorts of groups and associations – that’s the message I hoped to put across.

Finally, I haven’t come across resentment and negative feeling from local bat groups towards consultants. I’m not naive enough to believe it doesn’t exist, especially if you tell me it does! They will always be welcome in our bat group, as will anyone who has an interest in bats.

[Gill Catton]

No I should apologise, I am very much over-sensitive about this.

You're right ultimately the qualification is inappropriate but I'm not sure it will ever be replaced as I'm not sure it is appreciated by many of the larger organisation exactly what it is we do. They seem to keep making changes that make the situation worse all round!

I have unfortunately experianced assumptions that I am corrupt, or rubbish at field survey and even outright hostility from other people in conservation once they have realised what it is that I do. and I have only ever tried to do my best with the hand that I am dealt.

It is a difficult job, trying to find what's best for the wildlife if the site is to be developed (bearing in mind that what's best for wildlife isn't necesarily what's best for local people or new residents) while at the same time trying to find the happy middle ground between the client, the local authority and the local wildlife groups and trusts.

Ultimately, I wish there were significantly fewer people in the country and in the world and then we wouldn't need all the development but I have no control over this....

[The Woodman]

Nobody could would dream about challenging your comittment to conservation and the passion you portray in your posts must have had a positive effect on many WaBbers.
Please, there is no need to aplogise, just keep up the good work!

[Holly Tree]

Well I didn't know such a subject would spark off such a big debate about bats and consultants! Calm down everyone!

Well I am now back to square one, my contracts as an ecology field surveyor ended and there really are no assistant level jobs out there, what with winter and the recession...I am just hoping that the jobs will come out in the spring again. I gained a lot of experience this year and should be far more employable, so I have just got to hope I can get a permanent job next year. That really is my dream. So I have set myself a goal, which is to get a permanent ecology job by next august, otherwise after 3 years of trying I will give up and become a biology teacher! I am 25 and still cannot believe I have not really started a career yet. It feels like I have had the carrot dangled in front of me for far too long now...

[Holly Tree]

Hey everyone!

I just wanted to give you all an update and share my wonderful news, and hopefully give you some inspiration!

Someone finally decided to give me a chance, so I have finally landed myself a permanent job as an Ecologist for a ecology consultancy! I still cannot believe it has finally happened, it only took me 2.5 years of applying! Now this sounds like a long time for a new graduate just starting out but believe me it will be worth it in the end. Although I got nowhere in my first year after graduation, about 1.5 years after I did get contract ecology work which enabled me to develop my commercial ecology skills along with my voluntary work. All I can say is that you just have to go for it and if you really want an environmental career don't give up no matter what. I am a very determined person and the more knock backs I got from employers the more I wanted a job! So I was very proactive and always asked companies for feedback so I could gain the skills required by them, and I targeted all my voluntary work and ecology contracts towards helping me meet the general candidate requirements requested for ecology jobs.

I am hoping now that things will finally get easier and the ecology work circuit will not be so closed off to me. It will be great that I can finally prove myself and see what I am really capable of. I also really want to thank all those of you who have already been through all this and have ecology work experience for giving me excellent and valuable advice, as it really helped me when I was struggling. Thankyou!!

Good luck to all of you still looking, you will get there in the end if you really want to get there.

[Gill Catton]

Oh congratulations! I'm thrilled for you that's fantastic news, well done!!

Only sorry I wasn't able to help you myself (though mixed blessing as the company has since laid a couple of people off)

[Holly Tree]

Thank you Gill! And thank you again for trying to help me, the company you work for seems really nice. In fact I am supposed to be helping with the harvest mouse project which your secretary emailed me about, it sounds really exciting! Its also good to know that there are really great companies out there, as I have had some bad experiences with some!

[Meta menardi]

What encouraging news, competence and persistence will win through. All the very best wishes in your career.