Getting a permanent job in Ecology is so hard for a budding ecologist, please help!

[Jim Ford]

I think the majority of students that qualify in environmental/ecology related subjects are doomed to end up as personnel officers (or 'human resource managers' as they're currently called)!

Just me being cynical!

Jim

[wild flower]

Do keep trying all. It is worth it. Having finished school(many years ago) with no qualifications I can tell you that after a lot of hard work I am now working as an ecologist and I regret nothing.

Best of luck

[sophiemay]

I can totally understand you getting annoyed at people who gain a licence to jump straight into a well paying job, i have noticed a lot on these bords people just used it to get into work without actually wanting to work in bat conservation. Personnal i want my licence so i can go and help my local bat group do their surveys and be able to do roost visits. i fully enjoy going out and being very grateful that i can see such a great british mammal in the wild.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by The Woodman

From a no bias perspective, my wife is a NE roost visitor bat licence trainer and what really hacks her off are people who want to benefit from her considerable time and effort as a volunteer trainer and as soon as they get their licence, they become instant bat consultants who rarely do the job the were trained for i.e. roost visit volunteer bat workers resulting in putting more pressure on a dedicated hard core of folks who really care about bat conservation over financial gain.
Believe me, as a bat licence holder myself with nearly 25 years experience, you never stop learning and if I was able to give any tips, I would say put yourself out as much as you can afford to. Travel to help research students with projects, join a bat (special interest) group and join in with events like checking bat boxes etc.

Every year, the Mammal Society publish a list of who's doing what in the project world. I've made some lifelong invaluable contacts by cold calling and offering to help with field work.

I think it's difficult to become a good all round ecologist. Maybe try to specialise and finally, keep a weather eye open on the political scene, politicians can influence the drivers that keep the great and the good in jobs.

You see I get tarred with this opinion all the time and I find it very frustrating. I got a consultant ecologist job in the middle of my roost visitor licencing training. I was a graduate living at home and I got offered my dream job - one in the world of development where maybe I could make a real change for the better for wildlife - what was I supposed to do turn it down and work in a pub and carry on volunteering instead?

For the next two or three years I remained a member of the local bat group and BCT but never got called to do a roost visit - I got involved in a couple of local surveys with the BCT but not many because at the same time I was trying to get better at birds and plants so that I could do better by them in my work too. All this all takes up valuable time especially if you also have a boyf who you'd quite like to keep who has limited interest in these subjects.

These days all of my volunteering is for bird survey because this is my best area. However, I still work for bat conservation in my work as opposed to on a voluntary basis. A number of my colleagues do lots of voluntary bat work - in addition to the work they do in their job, but then they don't do bird of invert volunteer work - no one can do it all.

It is seemingly assumed that if you work on a professional basis you are somehow not working for bat conservation which seems very odd when to me it seems that you are working for bat conservation in one of the hardest areas there is - the seemingly relentless world of development. Yes I am sure there are a few professional who are corrupt and do the work only for the money and only tell clients what they want to hear but in my entire career I have not met one such person.

It seems to me that you need professional bat workers. You need people on the inside advising developers, fighting for bats trying to preserve them in the environment. And frankly the best place to be to learn about both bat ecology and conservation and planning law and how to work with difficult clients and how to get the very best for bats is on the job not as a pure volunteer.

Please don't assume that because a person is experiancing financial gain and doesn't get to do much bat volunteer work that they don't passionately care or that they don't work towards conservation as best as they possibly can.

Hopefully soon they are going to come up with bat licence training for consultants by consultants then maybe we won't get this resentment and negative feeling from local bat groups.

Although I suspect it won't

Huge apologies for this soapbox novel but its something I get quite upset about

[sophiemay]

Gill, I think a lot of people would the same, if you got offered a job you really wanted you wouldnt turn it down. I would do the same im sure if i ever get the chance!!!
if you dont mind me asking how did you go about getting someone to train you for your bat roost licence? i have written to Natural England but have had no reply as of yet!!! grrrrrr

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by sophiemay

Gill, I think a lot of people would the same, if you got offered a job you really wanted you wouldnt turn it down. I would do the same im sure if i ever get the chance!!!
if you dont mind me asking how did you go about getting someone to train you for your bat roost licence? i have written to Natural England but have had no reply as of yet!!! grrrrrr

I joined all sorts of groups and associations when I ended up back at home after Uni. I wasn't getting anywhere with job applications so I decided I needed to learn more and meet more people involved so one of the groups I joined was the local bat group which I think I cames across surfing the internet. They were and indeed are all lovely people and instantly started helping me learn about bats and then helped me start training.

[sophiemay]

yeh i have been out on two bat roost visits with the local bat group, they are so nice and its great to get out and learning more about them im hoping i can get trained through them in the new year whilst doing other groups to learn more ecology surveys, since uni did not really take us out enough to really get used to doing them, all i really got experience in was freshwater ecology from my final year project which i did

[The Woodman]

Gill, I did say at first that I had no particular bias either way and I do not quite see how you get tarred with this (my?) opinion.

Bat conservation has moved on so much since the advent of roost visitor licensing. In the early days volunteer bat workers covered virtually every aspect of bat conservation work that fell under the auspices of the Wildlife and Countryside Act and its schedules. Certain aspects later devolved to DEFRA and now it’s back with NE.

From your commendable soapbox reply, you have done exactly what I tried to say, that is, you worked hard, qualified and were offered your dream job that you took. You don’t say whether you attained your license, but I guess you did as you say you weren’t called out to do a single roost visit. The managers of the system must be in a position to answer that one, whether it was EN (NE) or their bat line contractors. I know from experience that those who are able to go on a call at the drop of a hat in the height of the season often get phoned first and those who cannot go for whatever reason especially if they can’t go for a number of requests, may not get asked as frequently. That’s human nature, maybe not fair or equitable, but that’s how life works.

I agree with virtually everything you say and I don’t assume that a person who is experiencing financial gain doesn’t care for conservation etc. I am in that position myself.

Professional bat/species ecologists – consultants are needed and I agree with you again. They should learn more about bats than a volunteer – that’s exactly what I mean by the Roost visitor license not being the relevant qualification. The demand for them is increasing. The pressure put on the few who are in the position of being able to train them for the only available relevant license is increasing. I was conveying the feelings of my wife who gives up a lot of her time to do this for people and bats and although my choice of words “hacked off” may have not been the most appropriate, that’s how she feels – not my feelings – hers.

There is training available from two sources – BCT & IEEM - that I know of for bat consultants and very good it is too. What the system lacks is a recognized qualification that demonstrates proficiency and knowledge in the subject. Roost visitor training doesn’t cover half the required fields.

Those who come out of Uni with an ecology degree will often say that their particular field of interest wasn’t covered in enough depth. You did exactly what I was trying to advise, you said in your post at 1.45 that after Uni you joined all sorts of groups and associations – that’s the message I hoped to put across.

Finally, I haven’t come across resentment and negative feeling from local bat groups towards consultants. I’m not naive enough to believe it doesn’t exist, especially if you tell me it does! They will always be welcome in our bat group, as will anyone who has an interest in bats.

[Gill Catton]

No I should apologise, I am very much over-sensitive about this.

You're right ultimately the qualification is inappropriate but I'm not sure it will ever be replaced as I'm not sure it is appreciated by many of the larger organisation exactly what it is we do. They seem to keep making changes that make the situation worse all round!

I have unfortunately experianced assumptions that I am corrupt, or rubbish at field survey and even outright hostility from other people in conservation once they have realised what it is that I do. and I have only ever tried to do my best with the hand that I am dealt.

It is a difficult job, trying to find what's best for the wildlife if the site is to be developed (bearing in mind that what's best for wildlife isn't necesarily what's best for local people or new residents) while at the same time trying to find the happy middle ground between the client, the local authority and the local wildlife groups and trusts.

Ultimately, I wish there were significantly fewer people in the country and in the world and then we wouldn't need all the development but I have no control over this....

[The Woodman]

Nobody could would dream about challenging your comittment to conservation and the passion you portray in your posts must have had a positive effect on many WaBbers.
Please, there is no need to aplogise, just keep up the good work!