Getting a permanent job in Ecology is so hard for a budding ecologist, please help!

[The Woodman]

Well done Holly Tree. Your determination paid off and I hope you have many years of fruitful employment in the career that you love.

[Holly Tree]

Thank you both for the positive comments!!

[neldadog]

Well done Holly Tree in getting a job in consultancy it really isnt easy and you have worked very hard to get there - best of luck for the future!

You easily had enough experience to be a graduate consultant, I really think it is down to a bit of luck when you get the job. Of course a lot of hard work in the meantime does pay off!

I got into consultancy fairly easily, yes I had exprience but to be quite honest I think I was just at the right place at the right time. I have several friends who are more experienced than me and still havent got jobs.

I would issue a word of advice to any other graduates wanting to get into consultancy that has not as yet been mentioned - office and report writing duties, admin etc.

An earlier post stated this as the 'easy' bit. Such duties are very important, and to be honest, the more dominant role of a consultant. As you get more experience within the comapny you will find a good proportion of your time will be spent report writing, filling, auditing, sitting in meetings, talking to clients, preparing costings, tendering etc. This work doesnt just rest with the senior ecologists, beleive me!

The world of ecological consultancy is very commercial, you are as much a business person as an ecological surveyor. This is to be honest, why a lot of people leave the sector (as well as the long hours!). One of the main reasons employers I have worked for say they reject certain applicants is beacuase they can't see how they would be commerically viable, irrespective of field skills!

I know such office experience is next to impossible to get, but if you at least ensure you understand the business side at an interview you would probebly stand a better chance of getting the job.

Hope this in some way helps other budding ecologists!

[Holly Tree]

Thanks neldadog, I think your advice is very useful. It seems some people don't realise how business minded you have to be to work in the commercial side of ecology. As well as ecology surveys you are also a salesperson and are very client focused, aiding developers with their projects. Lots of people start off in consultancy hoping they can eventually get into conservation, so they might not be in the business mind set for it. The lack of report writing skills from a consultancy is what I thought was holding me back but I couldn't get the experience without a job. Funnily enough the job I have wasn't put off by that, so now I can get that experience.

Does anyone else have any stories about gaining employment in such a competitive environmental sector? It certainly seems to be a challenge when you're starting out!

[NicolaB]

Well done for getting that permanent post!

I had a nightmare finding anything ecology based after graduating as well. I graduated in 1997 with a slightly disappointing 2:2 in Environmental Biology from Swansea Uni, couldn't afford to do an MSc, found myself overqualified for most jobs in Swansea, so I volunteered at WWT Llanelli for the best part of a year working in the education unit, and carrying out conservation and survey work in the grounds. It paid off eventually though, as luckily I met a girl who was working for the Environment Agency through a local wind band of all places!! She listened to my sorry story, and flashed my CV around a bit at the local office.

I landed a job in the microbiology lab a couple of weeks later, analysing beach water samples, and this eventually led to my current job as a freshwater biologist (I got my first ecology job mostly on the basis of my voluntary work!). It took me 4 years to get a permanent post, but luckily the Agency is pretty good at hanging on to their temp staff, and I got to do a lot of interesting projects in the process, although the lack of security and inability to get a mortgage was a bit of a downer!

It's a tricky field to get into, but perseverance definitely pays off

[The Woodman]

Good advice from NicolaB and neldadog, Holly Tree. My situation was slightly different in that I resigned from the EA last June after 25 years and set up in business on my own. The skills and qualifications I gained during that time with the EA have certainly been a benefit to me.

As a sole operator, I find that the admin side of the business takes up at least half my time, being realistic and that a "hard" but fair, open and honest approach to business and driving deals to even the most mundane tasks i.e. purchasing tires for the van can save a few pounds here and there. It all adds up.

Preparing competitive quotes is a black art.

To succeed, I think you need an edge over the competition and/or a good reputation, which of course, takes time to build up.

These things may be different as an employee of an ecological consultancy, I cannot comment on that.

The others have given you some very well expressed pointers and all I can add is that it is hard work trying to succeed, but when you do, there's nothing to beat it.

One of the drawbacks is WaB. Pleasureable distractions whilst sitting at this workstation are welcomed, but it can come a bit too much! Self discipline is the answer.



Good luck.

[Holly Tree]

Thanks for your comments NicolaB and Woodman. Sounds like you had it tough Nicola, 4 years of waiting is a long time! Do you feel it was worth the wait though? Woodman what kind of business did you set up? Are you happier running your own business rather then being high up in an organisation?

[The Woodman]

Hi Holly Tree

I set up my own business seven years ago and the company three years ago. What started out as a passionate interest has now developed into a full time job with wildlife. I deal mainly with bats and planning applications for development, wind turbine apps and management plans for amenity woodland areas. I am also involved with training, both professionally and as a volunteer for the BCT (bat detectors), mammals (badgers and pine martens) and deer management. Canada Goose management is looming in two months. If you want any more help, please PM me.

After 25 years in Fisheries, my other interests were taking up every other hour in the day so I decided to throw the towel in and work for myself. I still have many contacts in the EA and have kept my hand in with some sub contract work surveying fisheries for proposed hydroelectric schemes.

The great thing about changing the job was getting away from four days a week doing administrative tasks e.g. collating weekly reports, allocating every 30 minutes worked to time codes etc. Once upon a time I was outside on the river bank day and night loving every minute of it but the last few years were beginning to guide me into an office clerks seat. There's still a report to write after every survey and quotes to prepare but now I'm master of my own destiny. It's not easy work but the challenge is and that's what keeps me on my toes.

[birding dave]

Originally Posted by Fritillary

I have just finished my phd in Ecology and your commentary worries me
I found very difficult even to find a volunteer job. I am very enthusiast and I have left happy bosses with my part time jobs. However always looking for a volunteer job or a paid job in nature it is just too difficult. They ask too many things that I wonder if I will have a job one day in this sector. Sometimes I have the impression that the jobs given are only for a exclusive circle of people related. Maybe the children of someone that work in a reserve have more posibilities than someone coming from the exterior.... I just wonder

How we can get more experience if they never want to give jobs to people without too much experience?

Please forgive me for being honest here. Do you originate from outside the UK? I ask because your grammar is not very good and I have to wonder if that's one of the reasons why you haven't been able to get a job. With so many graduates and above looking for work now, employers can pick exactly what they want, so it is essential to show competence at all levels.

To Sophiemay - have you tried organisations like the National Trust or the National Parks? Bodies like this are expecting to employ graduates for even lowly jobs (I nearly wrote shovelling sh*t!), but once on the ground floor, there's opportunity for advancement.

[JoulesH]

Backing up my earlier comments about understanding and being able to communicate with farmers, I see that Natural England are advertising for Stewardship advisers in East of England - these are good jobs and your advice can make a real difference to the biodiversity of the English countryside, but you need to understand land management practices and their impact on biodiversity and also have an understanding of the schemes so if you don't know all about ELS and HLS then get studying!

[meinchewster]

I am also a freelance ecologist and can only offer the same advice as offered by others, get experience and memberships to a proffesional body like BES of IEEM etc, although these memberships in my experience cannot be used as a proxy for any individuals expertise.

No one as yet has painted a real picture, the reality of working in the environment sector, especially in consultancy. The reality is, that as a proffession, ecological consultancy has a very recent history, only really becoming accepted about 20 or so years ago. In its infancy, when someone stated they where an ecologist, people didnt know what an ecologist was and here is the real crux of the matter....people have jumped on the band wagon as a lifestyle choice, its sounds good, thats what i will do, i want to become a ecological consultant etc etc, the downside is that with the growth of consultancy, every man and his dog wants a slice of pie and not many have the genuine, intrinsic passion or scientific ability that deserves the jobs out there.

Because it seems an ideal job, sounds great etc there are pretenders and they are all competing for the jobs that you are also chasing.

Finally, expertise is always a commodity and is rarely overlooked.