Choices, decisions and dead ends.

[NickCantle]

Well I've been pondering my life situation for a while now and I've come to the conclusion that I may as well make use of this section of WAB.

I started my BA(hons) Degree in Photography back in September '07 and I'm nearing the end of the first year. Through many factors that I dare not delve into for fear of angering myself, I've decided that this course is most definitely not the one for me. Through my first years experience, I've come to realise that sure, a Degree is handy in gaining those higher positions sometimes or just extending the range of potential employment, but really, does it mean 'that' much? I'm awaiting a response from a chap who runs the BA(hons) Wildlife photography Degree course in Blackpool to find out when I can go up there and have a look around. I'd love to continue my Degree by transferring but If I have to start from year 1 again, that's another three years I'm going to be stuck in education, and fair enough education is important, but I don't want to feel that I'm missing out on experiencing a job that I enjoy at an earlier age.

The options the way I see;

Continue my Degree by transferring to Blackpool where the course sounds excellent but missing out on getting a job in what I'd like to do and being stuck living on a curriculum for another few years.

Quit the Degree outright and try for a job in photography (in any practice) to earn enough to be able to pay rent and 'live'

Of course I'm swayed towards the former option, but I would like some views and opinions on what I might be able to do. I know at the end of the day it's solely my choice and my decision to make, but I would appreciate any input possible.

I just want to enjoy what I do and have no regrets.

Nick

[matt_xyz]

Hi Nick,

I think you need to be clear what job opportunities the degree programme in Blackpool would provide. You may have great fun on the programme itself, but at the end of it all will it help you secure a job? A bit of research will help you answer this and it might help to speak to the Programme Director about previous graduates' success in getting jobs (be aware that they may be prone to exaggeration!).

I work in Higher Education myself and agree that any old degree doesn't necessarily help you get a job. Instead you need a degree that provides specific skills that are valued by prospective employers. I think you need to identify exactly what it is that you want to do at the end of all of this and then find out whether that degree will help you get there

Matt

[NickCantle]

Thanks for the speedy response Matt. I'll have to have a good, long think about that one. Perhaps I should try and get in touch with some professional Wildlife photographers?

Nick

[matt_xyz]

professional wildlife photography is a very hard profession in which to make a living. I would be interested to know what most professionals would think about that course (it's a good idea to ask some) but I would be doubtful that the course would be financially beneficial (i.e. add up 3 years of tuition fees and living expenses and then ask whether that course will help you recoup them).

I think the best thing you could possibly do to set out as a pro would be to get out with your camera and practice as much as possible. The more high quality images you get the better the likelihood of getting noticed and selling some images (and creating a website). I would doubt whether a 3 year degree is necessary to learn the techniques (these come via reading books, forums and practicing) though the course may help with marketing etc.

These are just my views and others may disagree. Personally, I have never managed to sell a single image (and I have tried ) and I know of other better photographers than I in a similar position. Others, make a tiny trickle of income per year through stock agencies etc.

Probably the best route for turning pro is to have a 'normal' job of some sort, perhaps part-time or with some flexibility, that will allow you to get out with your camera and will also fund equipment. You can then build up your portfolio and, if you manage to make sufficient sales, can then think about packing in the day job.

Matt

[NickCantle]

That sounds like a very down to earth and realistic outlook you've got there Matt. Thanks for that. I'll have to churn thoughts over and over and over in my head but I'll keep this post updated as I make choices.

Thanks very much, appreciated.

Nick

P.S - There's nothing more I'd love than just going out for walks every day and taking 1000's of pictures.

[eeyore]

i'd definitely second what matt is saying nick - Ive been selling images etc seriously for the last couple of years but there is no way it would pay the bills on its own (i am also employed as a full time volunteers coordinator) and wildlife photography is probably the least lucrative bit of what i do - fine art prints , sales to all manner of magazines, and sports coverage bring in the lions share of the work.

If i didnt have the day job , i suspect that i would find myself also doing countless weddings, baby photos, and freelance editorial work to scrape together a pittance to live on - which would probably be less satisfying and leave less time for wildlife photography than having a day job.

obviously it can be done - vis folk like andy rouse - but he was a software developer before he became a wildlife pro and had cash behind him - making the move as a student is a very dodgy proposition.

My advice would be to finish your degree - or transfer to one the suits you better - but not one that specialises only in wildlife photography as it is important to have a rounded skills base , then either try to get a job assisting a photographer (note these are heavilly competed for in any photographic field and rare as defecating rocking horses in wildlife photograhy), or get a job in another field (being a graduate will hopefully get you a better wage) and stick it as long as possible while building up a war chest to keep you going when you do go pro - if you take the latter route try to go semi pro and test the market while you are still employed and have a safety net.

[NickCantle]

Thanks for the reply Pete, I will consult my Mother for some more suggestions and advice

Nick

[Gill Catton]

have you considered a degree in biological imaging? it will teach you all sorts of types of photography skills while showing you a whole range of potential careers associated with this type of photography. They use photography in hospitals during surgery for example ( )also microscopy photography etc and also you'll learn some basic biology too. It ran alongside my biology degree and we shared a few modules in the 1st and 2nd years), my friend did it though he ended up going into lighting - he did the lighting for that 'a corpse bride' film and I think a wildlife camera man did it too according to google). It think its quite a broad degree teaching you a range of new skills....

[NickCantle]

Thanks for the reply Gill. I hadn't considered that, nor did I know such a Degree existed Sounds good though! I'll have a look at what I can online and I think the best thing to do in my situation is perhaps speak to a Student advisor here at Uni? Would make sense I guess!

Thank you

Nick

[pressld2]

That's such a tough question Nick and I really don't envy you in making the decision.

My view, for what it's worth would be to go for the degree. Not necessarily on the course you're on now - it doesn't sound like that one's for you - but transferring to an alternative or starting again if you have to. Not only will it help with employment prospects but education is valuable for it's own sake. One of my biggest regrets, looking back, is that I didn't stay on for A levels and then go to university. If I could have my time over that's the one thing I would definitely do differently.

Dave P.

[NickCantle]

Thank you Dave. I'm definitely swayed towards staying in Education for a bit longer and although the Degree might not mean that much, it's still a sufficient factor as to warrant perseverance. Again, I've discovered that the experience is what I'm here for and that bit of paper is a bonus

Nick

PS- All I want to do in life is learn as much as I can.

[Blackbrook Eye]

Okay Nick, I know over the last few posts I have had a bit of silly banter with yourself and your girlfriend but on a serious note, I started my 'career' in photography back in the early seventies, working as a freelance for any old rag that would buy a picture from me, after about five or six years the odd magazine would contact me to see if I had something that they wanted, and could they use it for the price of a packet of tea, that sort of thing. I spent almost every weekend at motorcycle sports events, submitting photos to all of the motorsports magazines that I could find, (prints mind you not digi images, all of which incured postage charges) and after pestering sports editors for several years I was eventually starting to get comissions to attend race meatings, expenses paid. I never made the heady heights of top photographer, but made a modest living and have been reasonably happy with my life. At no stage was I asked if I had any qualifications at all, never mind a degree, all that matters is does anyone want your pictures. As you know, there are a great many superb wildlife pictures in the WAB gallery, ask any of the contributers if they have been contacted and offered money for any of them, and this will give you an indication of what success can be expected from a life as a wildlife photographer. I really don't want to disilusion you but unless you know someone that can give you a good leg up in this field you may struggle a tad. By all means finish your degree course, they cant take knowledge away from you, but if you continue to attempt a life as a wildlife photographer, prepare to eat grass and nettle stew. Having ranted on, I still wish you all the best in your endeavors, Keith

[matt_xyz]

one point I meant to make is that I've heard several pro wildlife photographers claim that they make most of their money from running workshops rather than selling images. The latter is becoming increasingly difficult, not least because now so many people are taking 'reasonable' images on digital DSLRs. To consistently sell images now they really do have to be exceptional.

To follow up from Keith's point, I've never heard of a WAB photographer being offered money for one of their images.

Matt

[John D]

Hi Nick, I have been reading through the threads and have found the comments very interesting. Although maybe not directly related to your situation may I add the following.

My Grandson is currently doing a honours degree in Art & Graphic Design. He has just recently on the advice of his lecturers started an additional Course on Photography. The reason being that there is so much competition for Art, Graphic Design and Photogrphy jobs that the more diverse the better.

This in a way backs up what a lad who graduated in Art 4 years ago told me. He out of 28 graduates in his year, is one of only two who are currently involved in art. Fortunately his father is also an artist and has an Art Gallery. Both of then now do mainly Scottish scenes which they are able to sell via the gallery and known outlets.
I appreciate you have to make a decision, it will not be easy. But at the end of the day the decision is yours.
Best of luck for the future.
John D

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by matt_xyz

To follow up from Keith's point, I've never heard of a WAB photographer being offered money for one of their images.

Matt

i nearly sold one of grahams watervole pics to my freind jane - who is a communications officer last year- unfortunately the sale fell through. (i hasten to add that this was with grahams permission and would have been for a donation to the site)

that aside the hard fact is until you reach the top level status of folk like rouse/benvie/macintrye/ prior etc (and rarely even then) it is virtually unknown for people to approach you cold - you have to proactively send discs out and hunt down breifs, and build up a relationship with picture editors etc - even then commisions are rare in wildlife photography meaning that you have to fund your trips yourself and hope your pictures sell.

andy rouses book "life in the wild - a wildlife photographers year" is worth a look for background info - and stuning pics. - he also has a nice blog on his site.

[Meta menardi]

I pass on the advice given me by my father

Don't give advice and don't take advice.

If you give advice, it comes from incomplete knowledge of the situation.

If you take advice, it is only something to look back on with regret.

Gather information.

[NickCantle]

That's pretty 'deep' and I definitely couldn't agree on it. It's just not a 'realistic' point of view. It's a nice idea, but it just doesn't work like that- for me at least.

Nick

[matt_xyz]

Originally Posted by Meta menardi

I pass on the advice given me by my father

Don't give advice and don't take advice.

If you give advice, it comes from incomplete knowledge of the situation.

If you take advice, it is only something to look back on with regret.

Gather information.

by your father's own reasoning, shouldn't you have ignored his advice

[AntiPollution]

Hi Nick, Its my understanding that you should be able to transfer directly into the second year, as long as you have all your credits 120 for one year (six modules) you should be fine. UCAS may have more information, but talking to the guys at Blackpool further may give you those answers.

I would say this..........before I went to uni I was under-qualified to get into photography, and having a degree will help you get employement, whether this is in photography remains to be seen. You just have to remember there are x jobs out there every year with x10000 people looking for that job. Its tough but if you want it you'll make it.

But doing a degree will be worth it.

[NickCantle]

Thanks for the reply Antipol

I have decided that if I get an interview for Blackpool and I'm successful in gaining a place, then I will happily transfer and finish my Degree there; if it's what I want to do. I know it might be a difficult thing to get into, but I've been told countless times not to give up on something you want to do. I've had alot of support from family and friends over my past decisions and It's reassuring to know that whatever I do, within reason, I will have the support of them. I know you might have to be amazing to get into the the profession of Wildlife photography, but who's telling me that one day I might not eventually be that good? I don't want to dismiss a passion on a whim, so I've made part of the decision, and I already feel a bit better

Nick