Choices, decisions and dead ends.

[Meta menardi]

Originally Posted by NickCantle

That's pretty 'deep' and I definitely couldn't agree on it. It's just not a 'realistic' point of view. It's a nice idea, but it just doesn't work like that- for me at least.

Nick

It doesn't really work for anyone, but there is some truth in it. When I have had decisions to make that affected my future, I have always spoken to as many as I can, then sat down and had a good long think.

I wish you every success, and I am sure it is a difficult decision to make. My comment certainly wasn't meant in a negative way, more as an assurance that someone as keen to succeed as you has the resourcefulness to make decisions. Reading the other comments, you are getting your information from the right people.

[eeyore]

if you really want to nick then go for it - and please let me know if i can help you in anyway.

bear in mind tho that you are incredibly unlikely to be hired by someone to be a wildlife photographer on graduation - you will need to make it happen yourself - and that in turn means you will need some money behind you (in addition to paying off your student debt) so you best get saving

[NickCantle]

Well firstly, thank you Meta Menardi, I certainly didn't take offense from your posts, but perhaps I took it too literally I apologise. I appreciate your best wishes, they mean alot.

Pete, many thanks for the advice. I probably will end up getting in touch for advice in the future, if you don't mind; it's very kind of you to make that known, and thank you for that. About being recruited at graduation, I've got a fairly realistic view on that side of things and I'm pretty confident that if I do this Degree in Wildlife photography, I'l have the guts to get off of my backside and try and make something of myself. It's a life long passion, so the motivation is there.

Many thanks,

Nick

[NickCantle]

Hiya guys, an update, if you will;

I've been pondering this situation every day and every night since it emerged and now, through many hours of tears, frustration, 'depression' (I use the word in loosest way possible), I have come to a conclusion that I feel VERY happy with.

It hit me today, what with the amount of work I've been doing...and when I'm writing, I think about other things too- hence thinking about the situation. At about 2pm today, I burst into tears because this whole situ' just bubbled straight over the edge of the pot and I couldn't deal with it any more So I spent a few hours having a massive panic, I wanted to talk to my girlfriend but she wasn't answering, so I was really freaking out and panicking. In the end, I decided to email The Samaritans I think it was just because I wanted someone to talk to... In the end, I called my Mum and she spent a while reassuring me Good old Mum,

So the plan is- finish this year at University best I can (Pass ) and then I'm going to get a job at home until I can save enough to start renting a flat in the nearby countryside (There are a few, I've been looking!!! ). Once I move into the flat with my job, my beautiful miss, Elle, has agreed to come and live the life she deserves up in Norfolk

You see, through books and speaking to professional photographers, you don't need a Degree to become a photographer in any field. Sure, it might help...but I've a very good book that says it might help you take better photos, but I'm a true believer that only I can help myself take better photos by gaining practice and experience and not through courses where you have to have reasons for your images. If I find I still lack that ability to get the magic shot then I shall happily attend evening classes on advanced techniques. I'd be much happier that way. I'm not transferring to Blackpool and I'm not even going to look, because after four years of further education, I want to attempt to make something of myself. I think I have proved that I can endure courses. I know I've not got to justify my reasons to anyone, but I know for fact that this decision feels right and it feels like the best thing for me to do now.

I will still be taking photographs of the wonderful wildlife of Britain and I shall be building a portfolio of images that I take when i'm out. Turn a serious hobby into a career someday. I can deal with having a day job and being able to take photos in my spare time, and eventually, after a few years, I might just make a Wildlife Photographer of myself,

So that's how it is, and I feel very happy Thanks for continued interest in this thread.

Nick

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Go for it Nick, as long as you and the ones you love are happy, then that is what matters.
And I don't care what any body says, sometimes you just need to cry.

Good luck and I expect to see some of your photos in the Nat Geo mag in a few years time.

James

[Ollie]

Well Nick you have to do whatever your heart tells you. If you feel happy with the decisions you are making then in my opinion for what it's worth it's the right decision you have made.

No amount of courses or anything else for that matter will make you a professional photographer if you aren't happy. Just go with whatever makes you happy Nick and I'm sure things will work out ok for you and Elle.

Good luck, and all the best to you Elle and your families

Roger

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by NickCantle

Hiya guys, an update, if you will;

I've been pondering this situation every day and every night since it emerged and now, through many hours of tears, frustration, 'depression' (I use the word in loosest way possible), I have come to a conclusion that I feel VERY happy with.

It hit me today, what with the amount of work I've been doing...and when I'm writing, I think about other things too- hence thinking about the situation. At about 2pm today, I burst into tears because this whole situ' just bubbled straight over the edge of the pot and I couldn't deal with it any more So I spent a few hours having a massive panic, I wanted to talk to my girlfriend but she wasn't answering, so I was really freaking out and panicking. In the end, I decided to email The Samaritans I think it was just because I wanted someone to talk to... In the end, I called my Mum and she spent a while reassuring me Good old Mum,

So the plan is- finish this year at University best I can (Pass ) and then I'm going to get a job at home until I can save enough to start renting a flat in the nearby countryside (There are a few, I've been looking!!! ). Once I move into the flat with my job, my beautiful miss, Elle, has agreed to come and live the life she deserves up in Norfolk

You see, through books and speaking to professional photographers, you don't need a Degree to become a photographer in any field. Sure, it might help...but I've a very good book that says it might help you take better photos, but I'm a true believer that only I can help myself take better photos by gaining practice and experience and not through courses where you have to have reasons for your images. If I find I still lack that ability to get the magic shot then I shall happily attend evening classes on advanced techniques. I'd be much happier that way. I'm not transferring to Blackpool and I'm not even going to look, because after four years of further education, I want to attempt to make something of myself. I think I have proved that I can endure courses. I know I've not got to justify my reasons to anyone, but I know for fact that this decision feels right and it feels like the best thing for me to do now.

I will still be taking photographs of the wonderful wildlife of Britain and I shall be building a portfolio of images that I take when i'm out. Turn a serious hobby into a career someday. I can deal with having a day job and being able to take photos in my spare time, and eventually, after a few years, I might just make a Wildlife Photographer of myself,

So that's how it is, and I feel very happy Thanks for continued interest in this thread.

Nick

sounds like a plan to me nick - it definitely isnt worth sticking with something tht is making you unhappy and many of the top wildlife photographers (andy rouse for example) have no formal qualifications in photography at all.

in terms of developing your buisness the best thing you can do is get out there and take pictures - short courses by established pros are a good idea too (not cheap but significantly less than a degree) i'd highly reccomend the "developing your potential" and the biz and marketting courses by annabel williams and of course any wildlife workshop by the mighty andy r

I'd also reccomend joining the BFP (bureau of freelance photographers) and when time and money permit doing your lrps and arps (and eventually frps - tho that takes a lot of time and commitment).

remember too that courses and subscriptions (and camera insurance, depreciation of equipment, mobile phones and a whole load of other stuff you are probably paying for anyway) are a tax deductible expse on any sales you make.

i'd also reccomend making an appointment with your local chamber of commerce - aka buisness link who will be able to give you a wealth of advice free of charge.

I'm actually in a similar position because it is proving incredibly difficult for me to get a job near my fiancee sarah (almostnormal) - i am contemplating getting a part time joe job if no countryside work is available and trying to make it as a photographer tho i acknowledge that i will have to make most of my money through doing weddings and reportage rather than wildlife.

[PMG]

Originally Posted by matt_xyz

one point I meant to make is that I've heard several pro wildlife photographers claim that they make most of their money from running workshops rather than selling images. The latter is becoming increasingly difficult, not least because now so many people are taking 'reasonable' images on digital DSLRs. To consistently sell images now they really do have to be exceptional.

To follow up from Keith's point, I've never heard of a WAB photographer being offered money for one of their images.

Matt

Well I have - me! One of my fellow wabbers so wanted one of my images that this person asked quite seriously would I sell it - I said NO! Instead I gave it and even gave the big image with plenty pixels in so that my fellow wabber could print out decently!!!

Pauline

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by PMG

Well I have - me! One of my fellow wabbers so wanted one of my images that this person asked quite seriously would I sell it - I said NO! Instead I gave it and even gave the big image with plenty pixels in so that my fellow wabber could print out decently!!!

Pauline

nice one pauline - but in fairness to matt thats not really a comercial sale , which i suspect is what he meant.

I have sold a number of my images for comercial use - including several which are on wab - but i have never been approached cold, or via someone who has seen the pics online - all sales have been developed by proactively approaching picture editors , agencies, stock sites, post card cos etc.

[tigger]

Good luck Nick.

I've only just found this thread... I wish I'd seen it earlier.

I did a BA (hons) degree in Photography at Salisbury College in 1995. I had already been working in the financial industry for 10 years. I hated it. Went round the world for a year came back and got onto the BA course as a mature student at the age of 27.

I must admit I loved it. The course was brilliant and I enjoyed every minute. At last I was doing something I loved every single day. I had work experience on the Radio Times picture desk, at The Guardian (as a photographer) and at a local paper in Chichester. It all helped to mould what I wanted to do (or didn't want to do). I had thought I would like to be a photo journalist... the work experience made me think again!

In my final year I really started getting into digital manipulation of images on the computer. The thought of working with Photoshop, Quark and AppleMacs was exciting at the time. When I left college I blagged my way into a graphic design/print studio as a junior (ha! ha!) designer. They designed the BBC Wildlife Magazine at the time. It was brilliant experience. However, I must admit I wouldn't have got the job if I hadn't been a graduate (or so my boss told me).

Since then I've worked in several design studios and over the years my interests have subtly changed. I'm now an internet consultant with my own company, helping people to design, use and optimise their sites - quite a way from photo journalist!

Strangely over the last few years I've wandered away from stills photography (which I've still done as a hobby) and become more interested in wildlife film/video. Looking back I actually wish I'd taken the film degree (instead of stills!) but it's funny how much of the stuff I learnt at college is still relevant to film - and my love of wildlife grows each and every day.

So no advice from me. What ever decision YOU make is the RIGHT decision for YOU at the moment. Just be aware that your passions and dreams may subtly change over time. What was important in my 20s changed in my 30s and 40s. You just never know what life is going to throw at you.... and what opportunities will poke their heads up and wave madly at you. Just grab them with both hands when they do...

and most important of all - enjoy yourself.

Jane