Gamekeeping

[wiggy]

My grandad used to be a game keeper. I didnt know what his job involved when I was younger. I found out and at first I didnt like it. But certain types of birds need to be kept down.
I dont agree with fox hunting but do agree with shooting as long as the animal is used.
I didnt know you wern't aloud to kill a magpie unless you had good reason. I know loads of farmers who shoot them whenever they can because they are trying to protect their birds and eggs.

Where I live theres the shoot due to go on soon, the people who do it dont generally eat what they kill, they prefer intensivily reared, supermarket, pre packed chicken! To a totally free range - not commericially free range game bird. I dont understand that!

[JoulesH]

I've worked with 'keepers, been beating on many shoots, big and small, corporate and rough and had some of the best days of my life amongst people who are passionate about the countryside and wildlife. One of my most abiding memories is standing quietly on a ride on the edge of a wood waiting for a drive to start. I was next to the 'keeper when a mixed flock of finches flew in from the game cover in the adjacent field and started feeding on his wheat on the feeding ride - there were around 200 assorted finches and seed-feeders such as yellow-hammers and tree sparrows. He turned to me with a smile on his face and said 'why are the do-gooders who don't like shooting never around at moments like this?'.

One thing that does present problems is that when 'do-gooders' resort to sabotaging legal traps (Larson traps, mink cage traps etc) then unfortunately a minority of keepers end up resorting to illegal poisoning. On our own farm we do use larson traps - we have crop damage from corvids as well as problems with new born lambs being attacked - and we also have a fantastic range of birds, including ground nesters.

[danthekeeper]

[Where I live theres the shoot due to go on soon, the people who do it dont generally eat what they kill, they prefer intensivily reared, supermarket, pre packed chicken! To a totally free range - not commericially free range game bird. I dont understand that![/quote]

I am astounded by this we provide freshly prepared game at the end of every shoot some 15 brace and this is snapped up by the guns we also allow the beaters to take as much game as they like at the end of the day and this usually equates to another 30 brace per day the rest are taken up by our game dealer who frankly we cannot supply enough to.

[fairplay]

This was a very interesting, constructive and enlightening thread, until a certain person joined in just for arguments sake without paying any attention to what Little-Lloyd had previously said and quite understandably, L-L lost patience.

My own view is that I do not support the shooting of pheasants where our own native wildlife has to be controlled (stoats and weasels and foxes).
True, a wood used for shooting game will be better for songbirds, but why must this be at the expense of the other native wildlife ?

On the other hand, I am not happy with the phrase "shooting for fun" - this is a sport and most guns take their sport very seriously, in fact, if the birds are too tame and refuse to fly high, then there is no challenge and is not considered to be a good days shooting, also it will look bad for the gamekeeper.

There is also the argument that if a wood is not going to be used for shooting then it will be grubbed out and turned into arable. That may still be possible, but times have changed and I think today a landowner will find it very difficult to grub out a wood without a very good reason.
In fact, I'm certain the vast majority of landowners keep or plant new woods because they want to do their bit to help the wildlife, and it's somewhere nice to walk with the grandchildren.

Finally, I would like to say I do a lot of trespassing into remote woodlands looking for fungi to record, usually the wood at some time would have been used for pheasant rearing, so I would always do a circuit of the enclosure if one remains, looking for illegal traps or snares and years ago I used to find plenty, so I am pleased to say the last time I came across anything illegal was well over 10 years ago.

Perhaps the old school gamekeeper has finally come to an end, although we still need to keep an eye on certain people shooting in the vicinity of the Sandringham Estate, don't we Ma'am.

Neil.

[danthekeeper]

[quote=fairplay;577039]

My own view is that I do not support the shooting of pheasants where our own native wildlife has to be controlled (stoats and weasels and foxes).
True, a wood used for shooting game will be better for songbirds, but why must this be at the expense of the other native wildlife ?



Interesting that the RSPB admit to controling corvids,fox and rats!





There is also the argument that if a wood is not going to be used for shooting then it will be grubbed out and turned into arable. That may still be possible, but times have changed and I think today a landowner will find it very difficult to grub out a wood without a very good reason.
In fact, I'm certain the vast majority of landowners keep or plant new woods because they want to do their bit to help the wildlife, and it's somewhere nice to walk with the grandchildren.




Nonsense in 20 years of keepering I have never heard of a wood been grubbed out because it is not going to be shot all keepers need the maximum amount of pheasant habitat available as refuges and quiet areas it helps hold the birds on the shoot as a whole



Finally, I would like to say I do a lot of trespassing into remote woodlands looking for fungi to record, usually the wood at some time would have been used for pheasant rearing, so I would always do a circuit of the enclosure if one remains, looking for illegal traps or snares and years ago I used to find plenty, so I am pleased to say the last time I came across anything illegal was well over 10 years ago.



Perhaps if you asked the resident gamekeeper you would not have to trespass I allow most genuine people who ask if they can walk the many woods on this estate which equates to some 400 acres of unshot woodland (which we will not be grubbing out)we shoot on the other 2600 acres of the shoot but out of season I allow people to walk where they wish.

I admit many keepers don't take the same veiw as me but then perhaps everyones atitude needs to change.

[fairplay]

Hi Dan,
You sound like a decent chap and I wish all keepers were like you.

Regarding foxes, I'm well aware as an ex RSPB member, (I resigned when they failed to protect a very important tree which had to be coppiced) that they control foxes, but I believe only those that manage to get over ditches or fences into the reserve, although it is possible a contractor may control foxes beyond the area with the RSPB's blessing.

It is the principal of our native wildlife having to be destroyed to allow introduced birds like pheasant and red legs to survive so they too can be shot, which I am not happy with.

I carefully mentioned that there is 'the argument' that woods will be grubbed out ........ only because in the days when I used to go beating, this is what the gamekeeper himself and the guns, would often say in the pub to support their sport, even if as you say, it is nonsense.

Anyway Dan, I must be off, got the shopping to do.

Have a good Xmas,

Neil.

[danthekeeper]

Hi Neil
I agree in principle with you that we should not destroy our native wildlife to allow introduced species.
I would like to think that as keepers go I take a more pragmatic view of the animals classed as vermin, I set no traps, I deplore the use of snares and poisons and would argue the necessity to trap with most keepers.
I do however cull the fox on the estate but I should add that we have a free range pig unit,free range chickens and too many lambs to count so this is to their benefit as well.
I am well aware though that I may well be the exception to the majority of keepers but I am sure once they realize that it is not acceptable to continue killing for the sake of sport without some form of compromise then they will change.

merry xmas

Dan

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by danthekeeper

I am well aware though that I may well be the exception to the majority of keepers but I am sure once they realize that it is not acceptable to continue killing for the sake of sport without some form of compromise then they will change.

I suspect that it is the bad apples who are the exception as throughout my conservation career i have worked with keepers who have been decent, honest, and unlikely to break the law or kill simply for the sake of it.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by fairplay

This was a very interesting, constructive and enlightening thread, until a certain person joined in just for arguments sake without paying any attention to what Little-Lloyd had previously said and quite understandably, L-L lost patience.

.

If you have a problem with a "certain person" perhaps you should take it up with the mods rather than sniping at them here - in my view there is nothing "quite understable" about the use of foul and abusive language on a family orientated forum , however much one might not agree with the views they are expressing.

[danthekeeper]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I suspect that it is the bad apples who are the exception as throughout my conservation career i have worked with keepers who have been decent, honest, and unlikely to break the law or kill simply for the sake of it.

Sorry I did not only mean protected species as I said I take a very different view to most keepers and by that I mean I don't find it necessary to kill most of what would generally be considered vermin.As we buy in pouts I feel that certain animals that may have posed a threat to chicks or eggs are no longer a threat to my charges so do not find the need to kill them.
The only animals I see as a direct threat to my poults are fox and mink (though in the last 5 years I have only caught 2 mink on this estate).
Buzzards cause some disturbance to my partridge but by leaving diversionary food for them it minimizes this problem.