Wildflower IDs please

[Jennie]

A couple from the archives - taken in August, in a disused quarry on Portland Bill.

Is this Hawkweed Oxtongue?



This one has me puzzled - a Senecio, perhaps?

[Dorts]

Jennie, the first is Hawkweed Oxtongue - Picris hieracioides. Our most 'Hawkweed-like' non Hawkweed, (if that makes sense?). It typically has reddish stems and is well branched, (true Hawkweeds are not branched).

The second is probably Hoary Ragwort- Senecio erucifolius, though the leaves are usually more deeply cut. If it were Common Ragwort it would have black-tipped bracts.
Dorts.

[Jennie]

Thank you Dorts. I was fairly certain of my ID for the first plant, but still nice to have it confirmed.
I think you are spot-on with the second plant too - I recall it did have a rather "grey" look about it. I would not have thought it was a ragwort if it hadn't been in flower - just couldn't match the flowers with the leaves!

[aeshna5]

I'm wondering whether the Senecio is in fact a hybrid- it doesn't look like any S. erucifolius I've seen + it is a common plant near me. It also doesn't really match any other Senecio species I'm familiar with.

According to stace S. cineraria x S. jacobaea (= S. x albescens) is fairly widespread, while S. cineraria x S. erucifolius (=S x thuretii) only seems to be recorded in Kent.

Given the above I'm wondering whether this plant might be S. x albescens or a backcross from this?

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

I'm wondering whether the Senecio is in fact a hybrid- it doesn't look like any S. erucifolius I've seen + it is a common plant near me. It also doesn't really match any other Senecio species I'm familiar with.
According to stace S. cineraria x S. jacobaea (= S. x albescens) is fairly widespread, while S. cineraria x S. erucifolius (=S x thuretii) only seems to be recorded in Kent.
Given the above I'm wondering whether this plant might be S. x albescens or a backcross from this?

It was just before midnight that I looked at this plant, and a bit more time and a clearer mind would have helped! The posibility of this plant being a hybrid did indeed cross my mind.

Having looked at it again this-morning, I agree Senecio x albescens (S. cinerea x jacobaea) is the most likely candidate.
http://www.bsbimaps.org.uk/atlas/map...hp?spid=2821.0

But as we know, making such a determination from Jennie's photo is not going to be very reliable.

If it is a hybrid it must have one of the hoary or silver-leaved species in there somewhere. The two most likely are S. cineraria and S. erucifolius. What the other parent would be is more problematic.
Dorts.