New name for an endemic hybrid.

[Dorts]

Some time ago I told the story of when I was lucky enough to see and photoghraph probably the rarest orchid hybrid ever found in Britain.

An endemic hybrid?

What I didn't know then was whether this rare hybrid had been photographed by anyone else at the time. Well it had, by the late D M T Ettlinger, (author of several Orchid publications), who, along with his friend B G Tattersall, discovered this plant in 1981. His photograph was published as being the hybrid between Heath Fragrant x Southern Marsh Orchid.

In June 2009 at Kenfig N R in South Wales more specimens of this rare hybrid were discovered.
Since then this hybrid has been formally classified and has been given the name of Ettlingers Hybrid Orchid, x Dactylodenia ettlingeriana in recognition of his work in the orchid field.

Here's my original photo, (from a slide taken in 1981), which will now be re-named.


Ettlingers Hybrid Orchid, x Dactylodenia ettlingeriana

Dorts.

[Johnny81]

How interesting Dorts and how lucky you are to be one of the first of a few to see it - 1981 I was only just born

[stevecurtis]

Very interesting Dorts,thank you.

all the best steve

[Hobjob]

Dorts,

When they rename a flower like these days, is it always based on DNA?

How easily does the DNA separate such hybrids?

From the media I get the impression that it is just like looking up a photo ..... but I know it can't be

How much does it cost to do a DNA analysis? Lab time and interpretation.

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Dorts,
When they rename a flower like these days, is it always based on DNA?
How easily does the DNA separate such hybrids?
From the media I get the impression that it is just like looking up a photo ..... but I know it can't be
How much does it cost to do a DNA analysis? Lab time and interpretation.

Ineresting question. In the case of this hybrid. When it was first discovered in Hampshire the only way its parentage could be confirmed was by morphology alone, that is, 'What does it look like. What species can be 'seen' within the make-up of this plant.'
Obviously it was most likely to be a hybrid between two species growing in close proximity. And the two most likely, in fact the only candidates, were Souther Marsh and Marsh Fragrant orchids.
All such determinations of a hybrid made in the field would be done this way.

As far as I know, no DNA study of these new Welsh plants have been made. It has been determined soley from morphology, and this is quite common and not to difficult with some orchid hybrids.

DNA testing has as you know, has become very common, for all kinds of organisms, (including us!), which has meant that labs are now very over-subscribed for such tests.

There was a time not long ago when it was possible for £30 or £40 that almost anyone could have a plant tested; but today this is almost out of reach. Even if it were possible to get lab-time for such tests, they are likely to be very expensive; I've heard quotes ranging from £250 to £2,000!

So although more and more plants, particularly orchids, are being DNA tested to sort-out lineage etc. this is only being done as part of funded or in-house studies.
The old methods are still the norm and quite acceptable to the botanical world.
Dorts.

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Dorts,
How easily does the DNA separate such hybrids?

Sorry, forgot to answer this point.

DNA can quite easily separate such hybrids, as long, of course, that the database contains information on the likely parents. But it is, as I previously mentioned, unlikely to be used in such cases.
Where it has been used recently is to determine the true genus of some of our orchids. For example, the Frog Orchid is now in the same genus as Common Spotted Orchid's, due to DNA sampling of both species. Also the Pyramidal Orchid is now in the same genus as the Green-winged Orchid.
It's becoming difficult to keep up sometimes.
Dorts.

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Dorts

It's becoming difficult to keep up sometimes.
Dorts.

Impossible you mean

But thanks for the usual comprehensive answer.

[alindsay]

Dorts

In layman's terms what are the sallient points of difference that made this hybrid a new species.

......and if you had only found it the day before, Dortus Hybrid has a nice ring to it !!

Sorry that D M T Ettlinger will never know of the recognition given to his find.

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by alindsay

Dorts
In layman's terms what are the sallient points of difference that made this hybrid a new species.
......and if you had only found it the day before, Dortus Hybrid has a nice ring to it !!
Sorry that D M T Ettlinger will never know of the recognition given to his find.

Alison, good question.
As it was a hybrid between to different genus of orchids, rather than species, it was quite distinct, almost perfectly intermediate between the two.

As it was, I didn't get a chance to work-out which hybrid it was, before I was told. I'm sure I would have arrived at the right conclusion as there were only two species of orchid, out of the three on site that could be considered.

Not the done thing to name a species/hybrid after yourself. Normally have to wait until someone does it for you, and then you're usually dead before that to happens!!
Dorts.

[alindsay]

Dorts

Thanks for your response, though I was hoping for a description to pinpoint the features of this new creature ... ie long lobe, short lobe etc that made it different from a true fragrant or southern marsh orchid?

I look hard and long at drawings, photos etc of orchids and the difference is usually too subtle for me.

Regards
A