Northern Marsh Orchid and Mountain Pansy?

[broadbill]

Just a couple of plants for confirmation from about a month ago in Scotland. The first I assume is Northern Marsh Orchid from the shape and colour of the spike, but I was just wondering if the patterns on the lip conformed to what could be expected from that species? - it was growing on the edge of a loch in the Highlands.



secondly could this be Mountain Pansy? - the colouration in real life was more purple than the rather blue tone captured by the camera. They were growing in a grassy meadow alongside the river Spey.



Thanks as always for your help!

Chris.

[Hedera]

Not into orchids, but the pansy looks right. They are more usually yellow but depends on where they grow.

[earthdragon64]

The orchid looks good for Northern Marsh. I'd say that the Pansy is Wild Pansy - Viola tricolor, not Mountain Pansy. Mountain Pansy grows higher up and is usually, but not always, yellow.

Regards, Audrey.

[steve47]

Yes I have Northern Marsh Orchid in my vicinity, they look just like these with the tops looking like they have been cut off near the upper end. As for mountain pansy I don't know, I thought they were yellow.

[Dorts]

Yes, Norther Marsh Orchid.
With the Mountain Pansy it is difficult to be sure. Things to look for are the spur being 3-4 times longer than sepals. Much larger flower than Wild Pansy, with lower leaves only 2-3 lobes. Flower colour can be yellow, yellow+violet or just violet. Perennial.
Dorts.

[earthdragon64]

Originally Posted by Dorts

Yes, Norther Marsh Orchid.
With the Mountain Pansy it is difficult to be sure. Things to look for are the spur being 3-4 times longer than sepals. Much larger flower than Wild Pansy, with lower leaves only 2-3 lobes. Flower colour can be yellow, yellow+violet or just violet. Perennial.
Dorts.

I agree that it's difficult to tell from the photo without any of the diagnostic features being visible. I think that where it was seen points more to Wild than Mountain.

Maybe Chris has some more pics that would help us give a definitive answer. If it turns out to be Mountain I'd love to know where it was and go and have a look.

Regards, Audrey.

[broadbill]

Thanks all for your help! A few more pics from this location that might shed more light maybe? - some individuals had more white on the petals - don't know if this helps towards an ID?



The location was a grassy area along the river path just to the east of Nethy Bridge - if you put 57.26381,-3.64919 into google maps you should get the location I hope!

Thanks

Chris.

[Dorts]

Thanks for the extra pics Chris. Can clearly see leaves with 4-5 and more lobes, too many for Mountain Pansy, also flowers, when compared to the Clover leaves in the background, appear too small.
So for me it's Wild Pansy - Viola tricolor.
Dorts.

[earthdragon64]

Originally Posted by broadbill

The location was a grassy area along the river path just to the east of Nethy Bridge - if you put 57.26381,-3.64919 into google maps you should get the location I hope!

Thanks

Chris.

Google Earth came up with the location, I know it reasonably well, I spent a pleasant afternoon netting and IDing Butterflies and Moths there a couple of years ago.

The extra photos confirm it for me, as Dorts said, Wild Pansy.

Regards, Audrey.

[broadbill]

Thanks All! An educational evening!