Broad Leaved v Dark Red Helliborine

[birderbryan]

I would welcome any help anyone can give in regards to the following:

Today I have been up on a limestone pavement on Hutton Roof. I went for the purpose of taken photos of Dark Red Helliborines, which I managed to do OK.

But I did noticed that a couple of the Helliborines where what I now think could have been Broad-Leaved Helliborines (see photos), but also have further noticed that the leaf structure (especially at the base) was not like you would expect with Broad Leaved, and where more pertinent to the look of what you would get with Dark Red Helliborine.

So from the photographs supplied here do you think that these are pure Broad Leaved Helliborine, or is it more likely they are a Hybrid, and if so would I be correct that they would be a Hybrid between Broad-Leaved Helliborine and Dark Red Helliborine. I suppose this being the case the "Broad-Leaved Helliborone" would take the main title because of the flower structure being of this.

Also in the close vicinity there are plenty of smaller Dark Red Helliborines - eg: maybe 20 or so within 400 yards radius.

In the book I have (Orchids of Britain by Anne & Simon Harrop). It does mention a hybrid which has been recorded in these parts (Cumbria) called: E.x schmalhausenii, I wonder if they can be of this particular hybrid.

[Dorts]

Hi Bryan
Lovely photo's of a Broad-leaved Helleborine _ Epipactis helleborine.
Broad- leaved H. can 'mimic' almost all of the other Helleborines. They can often be found them much redder than your plant.

The hybrid E.x schmalhausenii is probably the rarest orchid hybrid there is!
and all parts of the flower and ovaries would be diffused red.
Sorry.
Dorts.

[leifus]

Originally Posted by Dorts

Hi Bryan
Lovely photo's of a Broad-leaved Helleborine _ Epipactis helleborine.
Broad- leaved H. can 'mimic' almost all of the other Helleborines. They can often be found them much redder than your plant.

The hybrid E.x schmalhausenii is probably the rarest orchid hybrid there is!
and all parts of the flower and ovaries would be diffused red.
Sorry.
Dorts.

agreed, still nice plants!

[birderbryan]

Thanks again Dorts and Leif, What thru me was the fact that I have seen lots of Broad Leaved Helliborine in our area (Cumbria) and all have had a similarity within the basal leaf structure, until I saw this one.

Even though its is most certainly of the Broad Leaved Helliborine variety its basal leaf structure has definately taken on the DR Helliborine features, as I see it....

Like you say it must have some sort of hybrid within it to "mimic" the leaves of DRH.

Cheers,
Bryan.