I.D Confirm please

[stevecurtis]

am i correct with chalkhill Eyebright please.

sorry about picture quality

al the best steve

[Hedera]

Definitely Eyebright, but would need more detailed flora to name it - over 30 varieties apparently!
Lovely flower.

[aeshna5]

Alan S is the expert on these- wait for him to reappear!

[stevecurtis]

thank you aeshna5 i will do that.

[Dorts]

Anywhere in Southern England on the chalk, it is most likely, with a few rare exceptions, ie,
E. micrantha, E. anglica & E. pseudokerneri , that your plant will be Euphrasia nemorosa. And even this, the commonest of the Eyebrights, is somewhat variable.
So, from what I can see, I am prepared to say that your plant is Euphrasia nemorosa. with the outside chance it could be E. pseudokerneri.
Very difficult from one small photo.
Dorts..

[AlanS]

Hi Steve,

A few words in my role as BSBI referee for the genus:
Habitat and locality information is very important when identifying eyebrights. Individual species are very plastic (i.e genetically identical plants can show a large range of variation depending on microhabitat and other factors) and they also hybridise with ease, so when I am going through someone's collections, I need to know what else might be in the area.

Your sole provided habitat/locality information is that you have suggested the name "chalkhill eyebright" (i.e. Chalk Eyebright?).
This puts you only slightly ahead of the lady who once sent me the top of a single shoot and provided, as her total habitat/locality information, "collected on holiday".

Let's assume this is on chalk in southern England?

If so, Dorts has quite correctly set out the possibilities.

This is definitely not Chalk Eyebright (Euphrasia pseudokerneri). Such flower and leaf characters that we can see are quite wrong, and it does not come into flower until mid-August (anything earlier is usually a hybrid or misidentification).

It probably is, as Dorts has suggested, E. nemorosa, but seems to be a weak plant, with the floral leaves less sharply toothed than usual. Maybe this is just because it hasn't plugged into a very productive host, but it could be due to hybridisation, but if so, with what? I have a couple of ideas, and indeed it does look more like one particular hybrid than true E. nemorosa, but without the site information I am simply not going to speculate.

Getting critically useful photographs of Eyebrights is not easy - as I know only too well - but details of leaf-shape, notable the stem-leaves, and branching patterns really are important. And, strictly speaking, identifications should not be attempted on single plants.

Alan

[stevecurtis]

Thank you for all your trouble I do appreciate it just out of interest the site is a Avon Wildlife Trust Nature Reserve called Brown's Folly on the outskirts of Bath it is a old limestone quarries the stone is known locally as Bath Stone,the main plants around this one was milwort, fairy flax,wood sage.
all the best Steve

[AlanS]

Originally Posted by stevecurtis

Thank you for all your trouble I do appreciate it just out of interest the site is a Avon Wildlife Trust Nature Reserve called Brown's Folly on the outskirts of Bath it is a old limestone quarries the stone is known locally as Bath Stone,the main plants around this one was milwort, fairy flax,wood sage.
all the best Steve

Hi again Steve,

Excellent! I was hoping you would tell us this is in the West Country. Now this falls into place.

I mentioned that the photograph most resembled one particular hybrid, and now geography and geology provide substantial support.

I still will not be dogmatic on the basis of the one photograph of only the top of a flowering stem, but in all probability, this is Euphrasia confusa x nemorosa.
This hybrid very substantially replaces pure E. nemorosa in SW England. It is common over large areas, independently of the parents, so there is no need for E. confusa to be nearby, but in fact E. confusa does grow on the western limestones, though it is pretty well absent from the chalk.

Plants of the hybrid have generally weaker growth than E. nemorosa, narrower leaves and differ in leaf-toothing (and often colour and texture), and weaker and more basal branching.

Alan

[stevecurtis]

thanks again for all your help,i would like to learn more on plant hybrids i dont dont understand how you can have hybrids with no parents present,is there any sites that i can read up on this on the internet.

all the best steve