Epipactis sp.

[o_alba]

Hi, I'd like to pick someone's brain who is better at identifying Helleborines than me please.

This plant was pictured on 23rd July 2008 in fairly dense woodland in Sussex. It was growing with a number of Epipactis helleborine, but I am not sure if this one is purpurata, leptochila or even phyllanthes. Given the date, the fact that most of the flowers are yet to open points to purpurata, but I'm not sure about the lip.

I believe one important characteristic is the "straightness of the lip". Does this refer to the edges, or the way in which it can curve back on itself when viewed in profile (see flower on the right)?

Many thanks for your help

Alexander

[ceterach]

Hi Alexander

It looks to me like a nice plant of E.helleborine, if somewhat pale. There is no hint of any colouration of foliage to suggest E.purpurata and the flowers are not right. I suspect far too robust for E.phyllanthes, also the white viscidium is obvious which should rule it out.

As far as the lip is concerned, it tends to change and "bend under" as the flower matures exactly as you suggest.

All the best

[ChrisR]

For what it's worth I'd go for E.helleborine too - they can be quite variable in colour and depending on where they are growing.

[o_alba]

Many thanks John and Chris.

I think I started off on the wrong foot by presuming it was different to the other helleborines it was growing with. As you can see they were much more marked, developed and had shorter bracts.

cheers again

Alexander

[Jason Claxton]

Hi Alexander it looks like Broad-leaved helleborine to me ,I can see why this one put you off.As to the flowering period I saw them into mid September this year.On another thread I asked whether or not people thought it was a good year for them,as I found quite a few more sites,and that numbers were well up in those I already knew.Has this been your experience?Thanks Jason

[davidbr]

Originally Posted by Jason Claxton

Hi Alexander it looks like Broad-leaved helleborine to me ,I can see why this one put you off.As to the flowering period I saw them into mid September this year.On another thread I asked whether or not people thought it was a good year for them,as I found quite a few more sites,and that numbers were well up in those I already knew.Has this been your experience?Thanks Jason

It's not a plant I'm very familiar with and according to the Flora of the Bristol Region is meant to be uncommon at best, but I found a very nice specimen of Broad-leaved Helleborine by a roadside at Leigh Woods, in the Avon Gorge, Bristol, back in August (IIRC, I posted a couple of photos in my diary thread). It definitely wasn't there last year; the area's excellent for a wide range of aliens, some very unusual (there's a Botanic Garden nearby, or at least there was...), but I've never heard of anyone growing Epipactis species in cultivation?

So I'm assuming it's a wild plant, in which case it must have been a good year at least locally. The only other place I've ever seen E. helleborine is at the Norfolk Wildlife Trust reserve of Weeting Heath, in the Breckland, where there were four very healthy-looking plants (albeit not yet in flower) in June this year.

[Jason Claxton]

Hi David,A quick internet search has shown that people do cultivate Epipactis, but I dont think yours is likely to have been planted.I fortunately live in an area with an above average amount of semi-natural woodland(albeit not as well conserved as I would like),this before taking regional distribution into account.Some may argue that once you have seen some ,maybe you then have your eye in for them.This may partially explain why I'm seeing more,but there are certainly at least at a local level more this year.jason

[KeenTeen17]

Originally Posted by davidbr

It's not a plant I'm very familiar with and according to the Flora of the Bristol Region is meant to be uncommon at best, but I found a very nice specimen of Broad-leaved Helleborine by a roadside at Leigh Woods, in the Avon Gorge, Bristol, back in August (IIRC, I posted a couple of photos in my diary thread). It definitely wasn't there last year; the area's excellent for a wide range of aliens, some very unusual (there's a Botanic Garden nearby, or at least there was...), but I've never heard of anyone growing Epipactis species in cultivation?

So I'm assuming it's a wild plant, in which case it must have been a good year at least locally. The only other place I've ever seen E. helleborine is at the Norfolk Wildlife Trust reserve of Weeting Heath, in the Breckland, where there were four very healthy-looking plants (albeit not yet in flower) in June this year.

You should come up North - E. helleborine is everywhere it practically grows on flowerbeds, gardens and industrial wastelands where it has been counted to 80+ spikes. Your Epipactis is indeed E. helleborine and the colouring of the flowers is typical of this species.

[Jason Claxton]

So Keenteen,a good year?.near me Ive only seen one in a flowerbed.Sounds like they are a street menace where you are.Jason

[KeenTeen17]

Originally Posted by Jason Claxton

So Keenteen,a good year?.near me Ive only seen one in a flowerbed.Sounds like they are a street menace where you are.Jason

Yep they are everywhere Not a pest though - beats Dandelions anyday - lets get some Ladys Slippers as weeds that would make it even better. They are a really adaptive species and are found all over the place. Theyll live with quite a range of trees.

[Jason Claxton]

Sorry O alba,if your thread has taken a bit of a sideways shift,theres still much that is relevant here.Thanks David and keenteen(Ive got loads of Orange Balsam nr me).Cheers Jason

[KeenTeen17]

Originally Posted by Jason Claxton

Sorry O alba,if your thread has taken a bit of a sideways shift,theres still much that is relevant here.Thanks David and keenteen(Ive got loads of Orange Balsam nr me).Cheers Jason

No its all relevant to the question in the thread really. All the points are helping to point to an ID in future of this species

[Jason Claxton]

Thats great news keenteen

[IanS]

Going back to the flower colouration here, our local helleborines were a mixture of really pale flowers and much darker more conventional flowers depending on the plant you were looking at. I was a bit confused to start with but later realised that they all were the same plant. Its obviously quite variable plant even within a group!