August wildflowers

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

I can see your point though it might be tough to decide at what point a garden stops being a garden - there's probably a definition somewhere - but some estates gardens are huge!!

I would hate to see children no longer allowed to make daisy chains or pick a buttercup and do the under the chin thing. I would hate to see students no longer able to pick flowers to take back and study and learn from them. When I was a little girl I used to pick a small posy for my mum for mothers day - usually from the roadside verges near where I lived - I used to pick blackberrys in the late summer and knew where the best hazel bushes for nuts were in the whole village and I used to pick nuts too - not all of them even as a child I knew not to I'd pick just enough to munch on on my wanderings in the village - I knew where hops grew wild and used to pick some of them too because I loved the smell and would keep them until they turned to dust.... I would hate for such things to stop.....

I personally don't think that the picking of a few flowers is a massive threat to most species, rare flowers by their very nature won't often be come across by accident very often. The Ladies slipper thing is a bit different because that was not accidental picking that did so much damage - it was systematic collection for orchid collectors in addition to habitat loss which personally I think is the biggest threat to most wildflowers.

As I understand it, if a farmer wants to plough into previously uncultivated land - such as a woodland or even pasture they are supposed to do and Environmental Impact Assessment - though how well policed this requirement is I'm not certain of - but it is there. Steps then are being put in place to protect habitats that may support something rare. Certainly development has to undertake such an assessment.

If every single plant and animal becomes sacred by law we will not be able to do a thing anywhere surely? That level of red tape would surely risk breeding resentment of wildlife not a love of it.

I just worry if I had been constantly stopped from picking flowers and twigs, collecting stickleback, frog spawn, snails, snail shells, woodlice, hunting for slow worms and snakes for fear of loss or disturbance I might not have developed such a love and interest for these things.

Gerald Durrel, David Attenborough etc all started off in this manner....

The world has turned since we were young and first interested in wildlife: taking a single specimen - perhaps to draw it - is different to picking a bunch for display purposes, whether it be to adorn a windowsill, or table on mothers day or a brides bouquet. . . .

I'm astonished that no-one else at the minute seems to see the importance of leaving stuff to grow and set seed where it should, esp among the people here. If wabbers don't see the need to leave things be then what chance for folks who have no real insight into nature and wildlife? Bluebell woods have almost disappeared in some areas simply from visitors taking enough to fill a vase ..........

Pauline

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by PMG

The world has turned since we were young and first interested in wildlife: taking a single specimen - perhaps to draw it - is different to picking a bunch for display purposes, whether it be to adorn a windowsill, or table on mothers day or a brides bouquet. . . .

I'm astonished that no-one else at the minute seems to see the importance of leaving stuff to grow and set seed where it should, esp among the people here. If wabbers don't see the need to leave things be then what chance for folks who have no real insight into nature and wildlife? Bluebell woods have almost disappeared in some areas simply from visitors taking enough to fill a vase ..........

Pauline

Thats often not always the main cause there has been widespread harvesting of bluebell bulbs for the gardening industry sadly perfectly legal for the landowner - other losses are caused by canopy change and muntjac love bluebells and its overgrazing by deer that can denude woodland of flowers.

actually the village where I grew up has changed very little since I was a child - the woods have too many deer and massively less ground flora - but the road verges are exactly the same all the places I used to play are the same its lovely.

I do absolutely see the value of leaving things to set seed where it is of course I do- but I don't think every flower is sacred for this purpose - after all thats why most species have so many seeds per flower to account for losses and provided the habitats remain the vast majority of species will remain due to the nature of seed banks. I of course wouldn't support picking on anything resembling a commercial scale - without careful management. but I don't think the odd bunch of whats growing prolifically now and again won't make too much of a dent.

Also most people who arn't interested in nature probably wouldn't think of picking flowers from the wild- they'd get them from Africa via Tesco.....

[PeterJL]

If wabbers don't see the need to leave things be then what chance for folks who have no real insight into nature and wildlife?

Not the point.

I spend a lot of my time introducing people to wild flowers and the wonders of the countryside but I am very sure that if I extended the same notional protection to Dandelions, Cow Parsley or even Jack-by-the Hedge as I would to Cowslips or Primroses, people would think I'd taken leave of my senses. After all they see the Council mowing down those plants in full flower to keep the verges tidy.

To convince people that the contryside matters and needs protecting you have to be reasonable or you'll be pigeonholed as a nutcase not worth listening to - that's been my experience anyway.

So a few stems of sea lavender from the middle of salt marsh won't harm when there are literally millions, probably billions, in flower.

Actually the people I've seen do most damage to rare plants have been academic botanists who, because they are engaged in scientific research, give themselves permission to pick anything, anytime, anywhere.

[PMG]

I wasn't refering to to town or village verges that are mown by the council - tho there are plenty of those across the country now that are designated verges of interest and not mown during the early part of the season cos they contain rare plants and fungi. Kent particularly has a few of these types of reserve as have Suffolk and Norfolk to name just three areas.

I know a very ordinary looking grass verge - to the casual observer - which in May will hold over 100 spikes of Fly Orchid and its right opposite a new build of offices. Not too far away is a duel carriageway slip road with anything between 3-400 Greater Butterfly Orchids - it has red and white tape thro it - put there by the council - to remind the mowing gangs not to get stuck into this stretch.

The M6/M58 roundabouts and dual carriageway section supports 40+ Bee Orchids and an even larger selection of hybrid marsh orchids ......... this also is not mown early on in the season.

Wild flowers should be left where they are - in the wild - and if there designated wild flower areas that have public access they should be left alone there too. It is not the right way to go to infer that a few taken here and there is ok. We should be spreading the message that picking from the wild is not a good idea - if everyone did it - stuff would gradually disappear as what may look like a place with billions wouldn't have billions if everyone picked a few..........

Pauline

[PeterJL]

We'll have to disagree then Pauline.

I don't think picking common species does much harm at all but does keep people interested in the countryside. I think you do more harm by forbidding picking and therefore putting people off.

[PMG]

Originally Posted by PeterJL

We'll have to disagree then Pauline.

I don't think picking common species does much harm at all but does keep people interested in the countryside. I think you do more harm by forbidding picking and therefore putting people off.

Yes sadly we will disagree Peter.

I don't think picking common stuff should be encouraged as most folk don't know what is common and what isn't. And I cannot accept that folk need to pick something and take it out of its life and environment in order to be interested in it - why cannot they leave it where it is - then others passing can see it too - why be aquisitive - why not just admire and leave where it is?
Part of my job as a ranger is to show and explain the natural world to the public and hopefully educate them into sustainable ways for the world and its life to go forward. Inferring that its ok to pick pretty flowers and remove them from their habitat and prevent them from completing their life cycle goes against the grain.........

Pauline

[JennyS]

I don't think picking common species does much harm at all but does keep people interested in the countryside. I think you do more harm by forbidding picking and therefore putting people off.

I don't think picking common stuff should be encouraged

When I was a kid the class teacher got us to bring in wildflowers and then we'd name them and put them in jam-jars on the window sills.......that started an interest that's lasted for over 40 years and now turned into a passion (obsession ).

Theres something very important about making a physical connection to nature, be it with flowers, tadpoles or whatever as a child. (And probably for adults too)
The 'you can look but you can't touch' approach is a bit too abstract to engage a kids interest in nature - get 'em interested first and then suggest taking photographs.....

I'm not advocating actively encouraging people to go out and pick, pick, pick - but to ban and forbid the picking of all species is daft - I agree with Peter that it does more harm than good.
Its a sense of 'connection' to nature that gets people caring, and that connection is physical as well as emotional.

[PMG]

Originally Posted by JennyS

When I was a kid the class teacher got us to bring in wildflowers and then we'd name them and put them in jam-jars on the window sills.......that started an interest that's lasted for over 40 years and now turned into a passion (obsession ).

Theres something very important about making a physical connection to nature, be it with flowers, tadpoles or whatever as a child. (And probably for adults too)
The 'you can look but you can't touch' approach is a bit too abstract to engage a kids interest in nature - get 'em interested first and then suggest taking photographs.....

I'm not advocating actively encouraging people to go out and pick, pick, pick - but to ban and forbid the picking of all species is daft - I agree with Peter that it does more harm than good.
Its a sense of 'connection' to nature that gets people caring, and that connection is physical as well as emotional.

There is a difference between 40 years ago and now! We too did that at school - but teaching isn't done that way now in most schools - there may be some small country schools who still teach this way cos they cannot reach or afford to visit reserves and education centres.

The rangers at Pennington run an education curriculum centre for wildlife eduction and the kids are taken out into the environment and shown and taught on the spot: their drawing, painting and wildlife studies are done in situ - the kids are taken to the flowers and wildlife instead of it being taken out of its environment and into the classroom to die - this suggests to them that leaving these things to live where they are is the right thing to do - it starts them off from the right premise straight off - don't remove things from the wild.

The pond dipping takes place outside and the critters are returned to the water - the kids do this so they see that things should go back and complete their life cycles. The ephemeral art is done with what they find on the floor, leaves, feathers, fruits - anything fallen - they are asked not to pick or break off branches or pick any flowers - only use what nature has cast off........

Pauline

[PeterJL]

Botanists pick flowers - particularly when the character is say hairs on a calyx or the flower is very close to the ground. Their excuse is identification but if a member of the public wanted to pick a few flowers to take home, I doubt they'd do as much damage as the serious naturalist.

The other damage which is done is showing people around. If you have a party of 20 people all keen to see a plant they tend to compact the area nearby and destroy surrounding less important vegetation. Again that's enthusiastic naturalists doing more damage than the public.

The interesting thing is that bluebells are often quoted as being vulnerable to picking. They aren't really. They're vulnerable to trampling though - a few kids picking bluebells would probably do less damage than a party of botanists on a BSBI field trip.