Ivy question...

[alindsay]

In the Collins flower guide, the only ivy featured is Hedera helix, photo below showing the typical leaf shape



...however I keep seeing what I always think of as the classic ivy leaf shape, see photo below



and I cannot see any evidence that these are two leaves are of the same plant ie I never see the 2 leaves on the same plant.

Is the second photo of a different species of ivy and I do see it more often as ground cover?

If it is different, why is it not in the reference books?

Hedera, where are you?

[Tursiops2]

The leaves of Ivy change shape as the plant matures. I don't know at what age the progression ocurs, but your first photo is of a mature plant, your second is of a young plant.

T2

[King Edward]

As Tursiops2 says, the lobed leaves are only produced by the juvenile growth stage, which is the one that creeps along the ground and/or climbs (but doesn't flower). The non-lobed leaves are on the mature stage, which is more bushy, doesn't climb, and produces flowers.

Generally the mature form is produced in brighter conditions e.g. once it's climbed up a tree to reach the light, it then branches out and starts flowering - nothing to do with chronological age, since the climbing/creeping form can persist indefinitely.

There is another native ivy species (or subspecies) - Atlantic Ivy (Hedera hibernica), but the differences between that and Common Ivy are quite subtle.

[Dorts]

Interestingly, if you take a piece of mature Ivy and propagate it, it will never send out climbing shoots. It has lost this ability due to the particular growth hormone being absent, or non-active.

There is tremendous variation to be found in our natve Hedera helix, (go to the 'Ivy-wall' at Kew and you will see what I mean!). This variation is usually found to be most obvious on the climbing shoots; flowering shoots are normally rather similar.
Dorts.

[alindsay]

"Generally the mature form is produced in brighter conditions e.g. once it's climbed up a tree to reach the light, it then branches out and starts flowering - nothing to do with chronological age, since the climbing/creeping form can persist indefinitely"


Actually this quote from King Edward's reply and the comments from Dorts all make sense as, lovely as it is in the wild,(when not pulling trees over), I have loads of the creeping, ground cover stuff in my garden under bushes (here a pesky weed) and the leaf is all the 'classic' ivy leaf shape, so not mature.

The flower is worth a close look, see photo



Thanks to all for the information

[Insomniak]

Originally Posted by alindsay

The flower is worth a close look, see photo



Thanks to all for the information

Yes, lovely pic of a very interesting flower, one I've admired on (other people's) walls for years as my ivy never produced any, though I can see them on the ivy growing through the taller trees in my neighbour's garden.

I've wondered about this for years but never enough to ask, so thanks for bringing it up, I'm delighted with the info!