What are they?

[DavidJO]

I found this thistle on a local piece of waste ground. It was growing near some spear thistles, and was quite tall, but the flowers were quite distinct. Any thoughts?
Also, a plant with daisy-like flowers. Using my trusty Keble Martin I've provisionally identified it as Ploughman's Spikenard, Inula Conyza, but I could well be wrong, especially as I didn't find it in a chalky field but in a pub car park!

[Adam Cheeseman]

Your thistle is Creeping Thistle.

Cheers,

Adam

[Adam Cheeseman]

The first plant might be Gallant Soldier.

Cheers,

Adam

[Hedera]

The daisy family plant is Galinosa parviflora.-Gallant soldier; and the other Creeping thistle.

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

Your thistle is Creeping Thistle.

Cheers,

Adam

The first one is male (bad hairday) and the second a tidy haired female!
I'd never noticed the two varieties until shown the other day.

[DavidJO]

Thanks, folks.
Keble Martin Doesn't have a pic of Gallant soldier but does mention it - 'an alien common in the London area!' This particular alien must have fancied a trip to Hampshire. Strange name - a straggly thing lurking in a pub car park doesn't seem particularly gallant.
Talking of Keble Martin (a book I love) what do other people use for identification? Is there anything better?

[Dorts]

Gallant Soldier escaped from Kew Gardens in 1860 and has gradually spread across many parts of the country since then, though it is still most common in the London and Thames Valley areas.

BSBI Maps Scheme: Hectad Map

My first record of it in Hampshire was in 1963.

As for the best Wild Flower keys/guides, there have been many threads, some quite recent, on this subject.

Keeble Marting was a great book in its time, but it had several shortcomings, particularly the very limited text.
Many of us now use far more recent field guides.
I use and stongly reccommend:

'The Wild Flowers of the British Isles' Garrard / Streeter. Midsummer Books 1998,
Excelent illustrations, text a bit awkward.
'Wild Flowers of Britain & Ireland" by Blamey/Fitter/Fitter. A&C Black. 1998.
I just love it, superb little volume, worth seeking out at any price.
'The Wildflower Key' by Francis Rose, both first and revised editions.
Probably the most popular.
'Grasses, Sedges, Rushes and Ferns of the British Isles and Northen Europe'. Francis Rose. Viking. 1989.
A must have for this group of plants.

And of course, if you want to get serious:
'New Flora of the British Isles' Clive Stace. 3rd, Edition. Cambridge University Press.

There are a number of others Wabbers have mentioned in this thread.
Wildflower field guides

But don't get rid of your Keeble Martin, it has great illustrations.
Dorts.

[DavidJO]

Thanks Dorts. I clearly need to get updated for next year - assuming I can get out and about and it's not a washout summer like this one.

[Johnny81]

There is a lot of gallant soldier in areas of the main town of Northampton hmm wonder if it's been reported...