A tall red dock in water?

arthurf · #1 (**permalink**) 30-07-2011, 08:46 PM

Today I found a tall (50cm +) red dock growing from a local (Gtr Manchester) disused canal. Unfortunately any lower leaves were hidden by the banking, but the bracts were small and green. I could not reach it to examine the fruits, but have never noticed it there before. Anybody any ideas please as to identification, before I contact the museum people? Cheers!
[url=http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/archive/showphoto.php?photo=170747]

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Dorts · #2 (**permalink**) 30-07-2011, 09:46 PM

(I have corrected your image Arthurf, so it can be enlarged).

Almost certainly Water Dock - Rumex hydrolapathum. Has very large upright leaves and grows in the margins of fresh-water.
Dorts.

King Edward · #3 (**permalink**) 30-07-2011, 10:02 PM

I'm not convinced this is Rumex hydrolapathum, rather than one of the ordinary terrestrial species. From the photo and description, it doesn't seem certain that this is genuinely growing from the water rather than e.g. out of the side of the bank. Also, 50cm+ is not very tall for a dock - this species can grow pretty big.

Dorts · #4 (**permalink**) 30-07-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Edward

I'm not convinced this is Rumex hydrolapathum, rather than one of the ordinary terrestrial species. From the photo and description, it doesn't seem certain that this is genuinely growing from the water rather than e.g. out of the side of the bank. Also, 50cm+ is not very tall for a dock - this species can grow pretty big.

Can only go on what we see and are told.
It has the typical upright, thin, branched flower stems of Water Dock with very few leaflets among the flowers.
It is described as "growing from a local... disused canal", with "Lower leaves.. hidden by the banking". So plant could be quite a bit taller than what we can see.
There is nothing I can see to suggest another species.
But of course, it can only ever be an informed guess.
Dorts.

King Edward · #5 (**permalink**) 30-07-2011, 10:47 PM

If he couldn't see the lower leaves, how could he see where the base was rooted?

Dorts · #6 (**permalink**) 31-07-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Edward

If he couldn't see the lower leaves, how could he see where the base was rooted?

Perhaps he could come back with a bit more detail. May help.
Dorts.

Johnny81 · #7 (**permalink**) 31-07-2011, 11:02 AM

Maybe curled dock? I think we need to see a fruit close up and some leaves.

aeshna5 · #8 (**permalink**) 31-07-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny81

Maybe curled dock? I think we need to see a fruit close up and some leaves.

I don't think we can be 100% sure on this without more images/description, but I was thinking along the lines of Curled/Broad-leaved Dock.

arthurf · #9 (**permalink**) 31-07-2011, 08:00 PM

Hi everybody

The problem with this specimen is that it was growing from the crumbling brickwork of an old lock pit, with the water level about 20cm below bank height. Thus I cannot tell whether it roots in the brickwork or below the water line. The 50cm is ABOVE the bank (sorry that was unclear), and it might be a little more. Also the banking is unsafe, so you can't get within reach of the plant to obtain fruits (they would solve the problem. It looks from the photo as though somebody did get them, but they either walked (rowed?) on water or managed to bend it shorewards somehow. You can't go round to the far shore either as it is cow-filled pasture.

What attracted me was the colour - I had never seen a specimen so red, and wondered about an alien. There is only the one plant that colour along the half-mile we walked. I will contact our local recorded the next time I am in the museum and see if they're aware of it.

Thanks everybody for your advice.