leaf for ID

[leifus]

can't quite place this, it was found on a fen in Yorkshire



i put it down as a weird potentilla....

[artdemole]

Could be Potentilla anserina-Silverweed....

[aeshna5]

Marsh Cinquefoil, Potentilla palustris.

[Hedera]

This looks more like a tree seedling leaf. Certainly not potentilla/silverweed.

[Dorts]

I tend to agree with aeshna5 and Potentilla palustris. Leaflets can be from 3 to 7.
Dorts.

[leifus]

Originally Posted by Dorts

I tend to agree with aeshna5 and Potentilla palustris. Leaflets can be from 3 to 7.
Dorts.

thanks to you both. I suspected so, as there was a lot around, but I didn't think it could have so many more than 5 leaves!

[King Edward]

Looks like Angelica sylvestris to me, not Potentilla palustris. The latter species has simple pinnate leaves, with all leaflets coming from a single midrib, whereas the leaf in the photo has a compound pinnate leaf, with leaflets on side branches.

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by King Edward

Looks like Angelica sylvestris to me, not Potentilla palustris. The latter species has simple pinnate leaves, with all leaflets coming from a single midrib, whereas the leaf in the photo has a compound pinnate leaf, with leaflets on side branches.

Although superficially similar, Angelica sylvestris has a fleshy stem with a deep furrow along the upper-side from which the broad, prominantly-toothed leaflets arise from a purple node.
It may be worth you 'googling a few pics to see the difference.
Dorts.

[King Edward]

Originally Posted by Dorts

Although superficially similar, Angelica sylvestris has a fleshy stem with a deep furrow along the upper-side from which the broad, prominantly-toothed leaflets arise from a purple node.
It may be worth you 'googling a few pics to see the difference.
Dorts.

There is no need to be patronising - most people are able to read without having technical terms such as 'fleshy' and 'furrow' italicised. Several of the 'differences' you quote cannot be excluded from the leaf in question - the rachis looks as if it could be furrowed, the leaflets are certainly prominently-toothed and there is a purple tinge at the base of the second pair of leaflets.

I have looked at a range of reference books and photos, but nowhere can I find any indication that Potentilla palustris has 2-pinnate basal leaves. This looks very much like the basal leaf of an umbellifer, and Angelica sylvestris seems to be the best candidate. I don't think the leaflets are too narrow for this species, considering the range of normal variation.

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by King Edward

There is no need to be patronising - most people are able to read without having technical terms such as 'fleshy' and 'furrow' italicised. Several of the 'differences' you quote cannot be excluded from the leaf in question - the rachis looks as if it could be furrowed, the leaflets are certainly prominently-toothed and there is a purple tinge at the base of the second pair of leaflets.

I have looked at a range of reference books and photos, but nowhere can I find any indication that Potentilla palustris has 2-pinnate basal leaves. This looks very much like the basal leaf of an umbellifer, and Angelica sylvestris seems to be the best candidate. I don't think the leaflets are too narrow for this species, considering the range of normal variation.

I offer my apologies if I appeared 'patronising' to you, there was certainly no intention.

I simply suggested that Angelica has a number of easily recognisable characters that were missing in Lief's photograph. I emphasised these by using 'non-technical' words in italics that I considered could be helpful in making a correct ID.

The leaves of P. palustris can be quite variable. The first pair of (basal) lateral leaflets in my experience can occasionally be 2-pinnate and leaflet numbers can vary from 3 to 7. I therefore consider it a very good candidate for Marsh Cinquefoil.

Lets not fall out over this, if we all agreed on everything, there would never be any debate.

By the way, here is an excelent picture of Angelica sylvatica leaves.
Angelica sylvestris
All the best,
Dorts.