Tenby Daffodil distribution

[Jason Green]

Hi all,

Just a bit of a query, really. How many native Daffodils do we have? I read there are two main ones - Narcissus pseudonarcissus (ssp. psudonarcissus), and the Tenby one - Narcissus pseudonarcissus (=N. obvallaris) ssp. obvallaris.

Is the Tenby one now a sub-species of our main one (N. pseudonarcissus), and is it only found in Wales as various Internet references suggest?

Thanks!

Take care,

Jason

[artdemole]

There is a site online where they can be purchased ,so i guess they are spreading.

[aeshna5]

According to the New Atlas of the British + Irish Flora, the Tenby Daffodil (N. pseudonarcissus ssp. obvallaris) is a neophyte + normally associated with habitation + in the past spread across farmland. It's a plant of uncerain origin though similar plants occur in the wild in Spain. It's been cultivated since mediaeval times.

The only true native appears to be spp. pseudonarcissus, although exactly where it is native isn't always easy to ascertain- but certainly many areas in Wales + England, but alien in Ireland + probably in Scotland.

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Hi all,

Just a bit of a query, really. How many native Daffodils do we have? I read there are two main ones - Narcissus pseudonarcissus (ssp. psudonarcissus), and the Tenby one - Narcissus pseudonarcissus (=N. obvallaris) ssp. obvallaris.

Is the Tenby one now a sub-species of our main one (N. pseudonarcissus), and is it only found in Wales as various Internet references suggest?
Thanks!
Take care,
Jason

Jason, there are two Daffodils native to Britain .
They are:
Narcissus pseudonarcissus . Daffodil.
and
Narcissus obvallaris. The Tenby Daffodil, which is found mainly in South Wales and a few scattered places elsewhere.

Until recently both were considered subspecies of Narcissus pseudonarcissus but are now given specific status.
Dorts.

[Jason Green]

Thanks all, just what I needed.

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by Dorts

Jason, there are two Daffodils native to Britain .
They are:
Narcissus pseudonarcissus . Daffodil.
and
Narcissus obvallaris. The Tenby Daffodil, which is found mainly in South Wales and a few scattered places elsewhere.

Until recently both were considered subspecies of Narcissus pseudonarcissus but are now given specific status.
Dorts.

The latter isn't considered native according to the BSBI Atlas! Though the new Stace has promoted Tenby Daffodil to species level, he too describes this species as introduced, long naturalised, so not strictly native, which leaves just N. pseudonarcissus as a true native.

[Dorts]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

The latter isn't considered native according to the BSBI Atlas! Though the new Stace has promoted Tenby Daffodil to species level, he too describes this species as introduced, long naturalised, so not strictly native, which leaves just N. pseudonarcissus as a true native.

You are of course quite correct, as a BSBI member I am aware of the current opinion and perhaps should have made that clear. However, as one of the older brigade, I have so often seen the status of species change to-and-fro and until the debate is truly settled, I tend to stick to that of which I have become accustomed, rightly or wrongly.
It seems no-one is quite sure whether the Tenby daffodil was introduced to this country, or whether it could be a natural variation of our only truly native daffodil, Narcissus pseudonarcissus.
It is of course an emblem of Wales, the true Welsh Daffodil, so I have to believe it to be native!
Dorts.

[AlanS]

I'm with Dorts here.

A while ago I decided I needed to know more about daffodils, with respect to my own vice-county (Wigtownshire, SW Scotland), and this led to my taking a more general interest, including visiting a number of sites in South Wales, for both authentic N. pseudonarcissus & N. obvallaris.

I believe N. obvallaris to be a likely (endemic ?) native, though probably not in any of its current locations. The situation is complicated by planting of garden forms, especially near Tenby. The suggestion it has been found in Spain seems to have grown in certainty with repeated quotation. The original suggestion was tentative.

However my reasoning for all this is going to have to wait until I have published something else first! (I have grown tired of telling people my ideas and then seeing someone else publish them.)

The lumping of several well-marked Narcissus species, N. obvallaris amongst them, as subspecies of N. pseudonarcissus, has never been a consensus amongst daffodil experts.

Alan