Dactylorhiza query

JennyS · #1 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 12:35 AM

Well its a Marsh-orchid, Dactyloriza species, but beyond that I'm a bit stumped!

Growing in a disturbed site which had a weird mix of Western Marsh-orchids, Common-spotted, hybrids, variations, possible traces of a remnant Early marsh-orchid influence .... and hundreds of Bee Orchids just coming into flower.

Thoughts and comments appreciated as it doesn't look too much like D. occidentalis .....

leifus · #2 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 06:23 AM

personally I'd say heath-spotted x southern marsh?

KeenTeen17 · #3 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 08:21 AM

think its just a pale Southern Marsh Orchid

IanS · #4 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 03:20 PM

if this plant is in Ireland, it cant be southern marsh as they dont grow there. Certainly looks to be some early marsh influence in there. Very odd lower lip shape so I am thinking that it has to be a hybrid but as to which one, I dont know!

JennyS · #5 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

If this plant is in Ireland, it cant be southern marsh as they dont grow there

Yes, that's the whole problem!
I've found some very odd plants at this site and wondered if proximity to an aluminium-smelting plant could affect them?

ceterach · #6 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 04:28 PM

Jenny

Just a wild thought after answering another thread, it couldn't be D.traunsteinerioides could it? Few-flowered inflorescence and apparently fairly narrow leaves. I don't know if it is recorded in your area.

Whatever it is, it is a very fine flower!

All the best

JennyS · #7 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Just a wild thought after answering another thread, it couldn't be D.traunsteinerioides could it?

Hi Ceterach - I wish!
A large reason for going back to that site was that I'd had a photo confirmed from there as being D.traunsteinerioides last year and the person who'd confirmed it was interested in seeing the site and the orchids 'in situ'.

Though four sites were checked (and we searched hard!) all that could be found were 'depauperate' specimens.
It brought home to me the difficulty of identifying 'odd' Dactylorhiza specimens from photographs as each plant taken individually could have qualified. However when looked at in context of the rest of the orchid population at each site they all came down to being small, scraggy specimens of D. incarnata or D. occidentalis

Sadly the same was true of another area where I thought I'd found D.traunsteinerioides - I learnt a lot about the wide range of acceptable variation in Marsh-orchid species though!

I was told that the specimen in the photo posted could have qualified as Southern Marsh-orchid had it been found in the south of England .........
Guess what - I've gone back to trying to ID lichens for a bit of light relief!

Andy Warne · #8 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 06:46 PM

To me it definitely looks like it has some Pugsley's genes. The flowers are big, there are few of them(10-12?) and they are mostly facing in the same direction. The stem looks thin. The leaves are narrow and spaced evenly up the stem. And the spur is long, straight and thick.
Funny shaped lip though.

It's great whatever it is. I love dactylorhizas, even if they do give you a headache!

ceterach · #9 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyS

Hi Ceterach - I wish!
A large reason for going back to that site was that I'd had a photo confirmed from there as being D.traunsteinerioides last year and the person who'd confirmed it was interested in seeing the site and the orchids 'in situ'.

Though four sites were checked (and we searched hard!) all that could be found were 'depauperate' specimens.
It brought home to me the difficulty of identifying 'odd' Dactylorhiza specimens from photographs as each plant taken individually could have qualified. However when looked at in context of the rest of the orchid population at each site they all came down to being small, scraggy specimens of D. incarnata or D. occidentalis

Sadly the same was true of another area where I thought I'd found D.traunsteinerioides - I learnt a lot about the wide range of acceptable variation in Marsh-orchid species though!

Jenny

This plant could not be described as depauperate!!! It looks in fine fettle. I think the lip shape of Pugsley's is variable and with leaves as narrow as they appear from the photo I cannot see why it isn't it.

All the best

JennyS · #10 (**permalink**) 14-06-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

This plant could not be described as depauperate!!!

Sorry John for not being clearer - I was referring to other plants we were looking at as depauperate, not the one in the photo in this post..... this one's a beaut but it was totally different to all the other orchids we looked at there!

Quote:

with leaves as narrow as they appear from the photo I cannot see why it isn't it.

Well the guy from Kew reckoned it definitely wasn't ..... but I think I'm even more confused than I was a fortnight ago