uncertainty over some terminology when keying out an orchid.

[gregorianrants]

I was trying to key out an orchid using francis roses key. fairly sure i have a common spotted orchid. however it did not have spots on the leaves which i am aware it does not necessarily need to and a couple of points on the key did not match up. the main reason for my post is the problems i had with some of the charachters used in the key. i am sure if i had been clearer on these i would not have had the problems.

relating to the orchid family key question 11.
the spur was longer than 10 mm. (in general i have found problems with sizes when using keys, also how do you measure things do you flatten a flower and straighten a a curved spur or not)
remember the lip not being equally lobed and having patterning (I think)
was not really sure about how to tell if the spur was conical or cylindrical looked conical to me i.e. tapered but pyramidal orchid is meant to have cylindrical spur according to the key and it looks narrower at one end, to me, in a number of pictures and diagrams i have looked at.
The main stump for me is "spur stout", what is a stout spur! to me stout is quit a loose and relative term.

[treecreeper]

Welcome to WAB gregorianrants

I have the old and new editions of Rose in front of me and I can't quite make out what your problem is with the key - the spur is not mentioned in question 11 in either book. But I would describe the spur on common spotted orchid as conical. His illustration is too small to show it, but his illustration of the spur on pyramidal orchid will leave you in no doubt. You are right that common spotted orchid can have unspotted leaves, but this is usually on plants with pale or white flowers. I usually go by the equally 3-lobed lip and the rather characteristic conical-becoming-cylindrical infloresence. You might want to get a specialist orchid book like Lang's:

Britain's Orchids: Amazon.co.uk: David Lang: Books

I have the previous manifestation of this published under a different title. The new one apparently uses many of the photos from the first. Common spotted orchid and its spur are well illustrated.

[KeenTeen17]

I have found that the Sharrap's Guide to Orchids is very good. It has diagrams which explain all the complicated terms

[gregorianrants]

thanks for your reply guys. sorry about the question number should have been 10. I will check that book out I have not seen many orchids for comparison perhaps something more comprehensive and less technical will help with gaining familiarity in a group you do not see about to much to practice with.