Help with ID please - Horsetail?

green orchid · #1 (**permalink**) 25-05-2009, 07:29 PM

Can anyone help to identify this please?

treecreeper · #2 (**permalink**) 25-05-2009, 07:42 PM

I think those are young sterile shoots of giant horsetail, Equisetum telmateia.

green orchid · #3 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 09:54 AM

Thank you very much for your help. After looking them up I think youre right!
Now I need to find some with the lovely little heads on, are they likely to be close by these?

Lancashire Lad · #4 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 01:19 PM

Since only 4 - 5 sheath teeth can be seen at each node, (which would indicate approximately 12 teeth around the full circumference of the stem), I think this is Field Horsetail - Equisetum arvense. Great Horsetail would have between 20 & 30 sheath teeth around the stem circumference at each node.

I would also expect the stem of a Great Horsetail to appear more robust, and the stem of Great Horsetail is conspicuously white, (as in my pic. below), whereas the one in your photo is showing a green stem.

Regards
Mike.

diggleken · #5 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 01:26 PM

Good info Mike - something new everyday!

Cheers
Ken

ceterach · #6 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

Since only 4 - 5 sheath teeth can be seen at each node, (which would indicate approximately 12 teeth around the full circumference of the stem), I think this is Field Horsetail - Equisetum arvense. Great Horsetail would have between 20 & 30 sheath teeth around the stem circumference at each node.

I suspect you are probably right

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

I would also expect the stem of a Great Horsetail to appear more robust, and the stem of Great Horsetail is conspicuously white, (as in my pic. below), whereas the one in your photo is showing a green stem.

Regards
Mike.

Your picture is of a fertile stem which in both species is brownish white whereas the sterile stem (as green orchid posted) of both species is green.

Indeed I am not convinced that your picture does not show E.arvense.

Lancashire Lad · #7 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceterach

I suspect you are probably right

Your picture is of a fertile stem which in both species is brownish white whereas the sterile stem (as green orchid posted) of both species is green.

Not a good comparison photo - Fertile stems of both are indeed brown/white.

Regards sterile stems, I wouldn't say those of E.telmateia are green as such. (node areas & branches are). - Francis Rose's book, Grasses, Sedges, Rushes & Ferns of the British Isles agrees, saying "Great Horsetail has smooth, ivory white, brittle, succulent, sterile stems".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceterach

Indeed I am not convinced that your picture does not show E.arvense.

I'm pretty sure my photo is E.telmateia, as it is showing far too many sheath teeth, and the stems were about 12-15mm diameter, which would be too robust for E.arvense.

Regards
Mike.

treecreeper · #8 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 04:05 PM

I'm still convinced it's E. telmateia. It looks exactly like the photo in Roger Phillips' book

Lancashire Lad · #9 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treecreeper

I'm still convinced it's E. telmateia. It looks exactly like the photo in Roger Phillips' book

I don't have the book you mention, but how many sheath teeth are showing on the photo which makes you think it's E.telmateia?

If it were, the teeth (scale leaves) should be very close together, and not separated as in green orchid's photo.

PS: Out of interest - What's the title of Phillips book?

Regards
Mike.

treecreeper · #10 (**permalink**) 26-05-2009, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

I don't have the book you mention, but how many sheath teeth are showing on the photo which makes you think it's E.telmateia?

If it were, the teeth (scale leaves) should be very close together, and not separated as in green orchid's photo.

PS: Out of interest - What's the title of Phillips book?

Regards
Mike.

Mike, I've changed my mind! The teeth in the Phillips illustration are much more closely packed than in the photo here and there about 20 round the circumference. The book is Grasses, Ferns, Mosses and Lichens of Great Britain and Ireland:

Grasses, Ferns, Mosses and Lichens of Great Britain and Ireland: Roger Phillips: Amazon.co.uk: Sheila Grant: Books

His photo of E. arvense shows a typical sterile shoot. It is pure green, nothing like the plant here, but growing from the bottom of it you can see some young sterile shoots which do have some white in them...and fewer teeth. I think this makes E. arvense more likely; it rules out E. telmateia anyway.