Purism in Botany

[KeenTeen17]

After answering to a similar thread on the birds forum I thought I would start this one. How do you botanists out there count your year lists? Do you include garden escaped plants or do they have to be established there for a few years first. My way is that a plant is a plant, its better to have seen an escapee/planted version than driving one hundred and fifty miles to go and see it. Although the native plants are genetically different, they are the same plant to me. Some plants are now actually on the British List that have been naturalised garden escapes: Winter Aconite, Purple Toothwort and Orange Balsam.

Any views out there?

[Lancashire Lad]

As an out-and-out amateur, I tend to agree with you KT.

I don't subscribe to the deliberate planting of garden species in wild areas as some do.

But, provided that the seeds of the plant(s) in question have managed to find their way to wherever the site is by natural means (carried by wind, by animals or birds, etc.), then as far as I'm concerned, that plant is a "wild" plant.

Obviously there are some plants that will be readily distinguishable as garden escapes, but for me, the joy is in seeing the plant, and it makes no difference to me, that it may be an indiginous species, a naturalised specimen, or whatever.

I don't doubt that others will disagree, but these are just my personal opinions.

Regards
Mike.

[diggleken]

Originally Posted by KeenTeen17

After answering to a similar thread on the birds forum I thought I would start this one. How do you botanists out there count your year lists? Do you include garden escaped plants or do they have to be established there for a few years first. My way is that a plant is a plant, its better to have seen an escapee/planted version than driving one hundred and fifty miles to go and see it. Although the native plants are genetically different, they are the same plant to me. Some plants are now actually on the British List that have been naturalised garden escapes: Winter Aconite, Purple Toothwort and Orange Balsam.

Any views out there?

Oh heck - I didnt realise plantspeople did lists too like us birders -I'll have to start now, although its a tad late to remember far back!
Not sure about the planted version approach KT - I think of the planted arctic/alpines at the Ptarmigan restaurant at about 3500ft on Cairngorm - surely you cant count those instead of going for a high level wander to 4000ft plus to find 'the real thing' - various saxifrages, alpine ladys mantle, globeflower, mountain pansy and procumbent azalea spring to mind.
But - where/how do you draw the line?
Interesting thread!
Ken

[KeenTeen17]

I usually draw the line at:

I don't count a plant in a garden as a find, but a plant in a park that has been there years and is a recorded British neophyte (I think its called) then it counts for me. I wouldn't count the alpines at a restaurant but would count the ones on the mountains as wild.

[Gypsy Orchid]

I never count garden escapes as I feel this is too easy . My parents would never count any thing in site of a house so I suppose that influence me. I prefer my list to be purely wild flowers but it is really up to the individual as long as you make it clear they are garden escapes and are just after a high plant count. Numbers are not important to me I just like to find any interesting species in the wild especially if it is a new flower but I prefer to find my own rather than be shown.

[KeenTeen17]

and I'll sentiment Mikes comment about garden plants being spread by the wind or bird etc. to a natural area then that for me would count as a tick. If it has been thrown over fence because its unwanted I would depend it on the circumstances if it is surviving OK in that area,

[diggleken]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Orchid

I never count garden escapes as I feel this is too easy . My parents would never count any thing in site of a house so I suppose that influence me. I prefer my list to be purely wild flowers but it is really up to the individual as long as you make it clear they are garden escapes and are just after a high plant count. Numbers are not important to me I just like to find any interesting species in the wild especially if it is a new flower but I prefer to find my own rather than be shown.

I'm with you gypsy orchid - I like to discover for myself - and go to wild places to do so, on my own.
ken

[Meta menardi]

Count? Lists? I just feel lucky to find things, I don't have the level of organisation to do counts or lists. I doubt I have a true pair of socks, but I never wear shoes of different colours.

[ceterach]

No doubt this answer will get swamped by others while I am writing it and I have been known to get quite aerated in previous threads on related subjects but here goes.

First a question, why do you go to see plants? If it is to keep a year list then to me (like bird twitching) it is a modern alternative to train spotting. I cannot really therefore see that it matters where you see the plant whether it be growing naturally in the mountains of Scotland or in a pot in the alpine house at Kew. So the question of whether it is growing naturally or not is an artificial distinction. Personally I cannot see the point of this but that is my opinion and I did train spot when I was young (a long time ago). If it is to try and attain a specific target, for example to see all the orchids native to Britain, then you are defining your own endpoint and good luck to you.

Secondly is the underlying query in your post regarding the status of “non-native” species. Until the past 50 or so years, habitats and ecosystems evolved over many hundreds/thousands of years, man’s influence was paramount but even so most species introduced by man were from neighbouring countries and represented value plants for crops etc. This long period meant that on the whole insects etc evolved with the plants producing balanced habitats with changes occurring slowly. Then 50 years or so ago horticultural Britain took off and now garden plants have become disposable. On our local Downs I could show you probably 50 or more non-native species growing with associated peat-free compost. Now to me that is a garden not a natural place and on its own is an anathema. Now you add the fact that some of these plants start growing out of control and displacing native species and as far as I am concerned that is unacceptable whether they were discarded or from “escaped” seed.

I know this will all sound rather pompous and pretentious but it is not! I have been known to twitch quite a few rare plants but in general I get most satisfaction from seeing plants in habitat where they belong and from seeing the damage that introduced aliens can do to fragile ecosystems.

The last thing I wish to see is “wild” Britain being turned into one big garden. If you see an escaped alien, do the decent thing, tick it, photograph it and then dig it up (yes, I do know that a few are protected).

[ceterach]

Originally Posted by KeenTeen17

and I'll sentiment Mikes comment about garden plants being spread by the wind or bird etc. to a natural area then that for me would count as a tick. If it has been thrown over fence because its unwanted I would depend it on the circumstances if it is surviving OK in that area,

If only it was simply thrown over a fence!!!!