Lesser Twayblade Site?

[the young hunter]

One species I need to see is lesser twayblade - it has so far illuded me. I wondered if anyone had been to 'Roman Steps' in Wales as this is supposedly a good site for the species? It's also the closest site I know to the West Midlands, (where I live).

Anyone know any nearer sites to the West Midlands than this site?? I know it's an upland species so I'm going to have to travel pretty far to find one...

PM if you know a site please.



cheers..............mike

[ceterach]

Hi

The Elan Valley is a bit nearer and you can find it there!


If you want to see it in profusion, try the Pentland Hills south of Edinburgh, long way I know but.....


All the best

[the young hunter]

Thanks for your reply but I went to Elan valley, (an area I know well) and they said it hadn't been seen for 15 years!!!

I think that's my best plan - go to a place where it is very common! Thankyou for telling me about this site

Do you have good directions to an exact site within the hills by any chance? - finding orchids that are 3 inches high in some hills is quite hard


mike

[ceterach]

Listen young lad, if you are not willing to tramp for two days over hill and dale looking for a small plant, orchid or otherwise you can't be very interested!!!

Seriously though, there are not many roads right into the hills but if you go down the northern side of the Pentland Hills (A70) there are one or two roads that go to picnic sites etc. Similarly from the south side (A702). Then start walking up the valleys and look in the bogs on the steep sides of the valleys. The numbers can be huge in some years (it is all relative for a southerner like me!!). They are at their peak at the end of July.

As far as the Elan Valley is concerned, well who knows! A lot of these places are drying out. One site I knew in Devon where it grew, as usual in Sphagnum tussocks in the middle of a bog, is now bone dry.

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by ceterach

They are at their peak at the end of July.

The ones I've found near Loch Garten are well gone over by late July.

Jim

[Jim Ford]

As 'The Young Hunter' just wants to get out of a car and walk a few meters for his botany, how about this:
;^)



I wouldn't normally post detailed instructions for an orchid, but as Lesser Twayblades are difficult to find, rather than rare, I've done so here.

I found they've gone over by late July - I would think late June would be better, but I can never get up there then.

Culbin Forest near Forres is said to be good for Lesser Twayblades, but I've spent three full exhausting days there and not seen any. Mind you, there's more Creeping Ladys Tresses than you can shake a stick at!

Jim

[the young hunter]

[quote=ceterach;328005]Listen young lad, if you are not willing to tramp for two days over hill and dale looking for a small plant, orchid or otherwise you can't be very interested!!!

Well I never! My mom can testify that virtually every bog, forest, meadow and hill in the country has been tramped across by my worn and tired feet during the last 10 years!

Thankyou for the info though, it will be very useful for me

As for flowering times, I thought lesser twayblade was at it's best in early June if I'm honest.


mike

[ceterach]

[quote=the young hunter;328114]

Originally Posted by ceterach

As for flowering times, I thought lesser twayblade was at it's best in early June if I'm honest.


mike

Mike and Jim

Lesser Twayblade has a long flowering period and that is why I mentioned it. I have seen them up there at least three times over twenty years and they have been in full bloom at the end of July.

Perhaps there is someone more local than me (!!!) who can comment.

Down south they flower in early June

All the best

[Jim Ford]

[quote=ceterach;328582]

Originally Posted by the young hunter

Mike and Jim

Lesser Twayblade has a long flowering period and that is why I mentioned it. I have seen them up there at least three times over twenty years and they have been in full bloom at the end of July.

If you look at the exif of this one you'll see it was taken on the 14th July. This is the top bloom and is well gone over and had set seed.



Jim

[the young hunter]

I have to say that I've never seen any photos of lesser twayblade in full bloom taken at any time in July, maybe you have some photos for evidence

I'm sure that even in one colony however, flowering is not synchronized but I didn't know there could be such a wide variation in flowering period



mike

[ceterach]

Originally Posted by the young hunter

I have to say that I've never seen any photos of lesser twayblade in full bloom taken at any time in July, maybe you have some photos for evidence
mike

Yes I do have photos but since they are not digital that won't help.

You asked for locations I gave you two and when you questioned the flowering time I confirmed my observation!

I must admit I was only passing on my practical experience rather than reading a book but your comments moved me to check various textbooks and guess what, for lesser twayblade flowering times range from May - September (according to the books).

I also notice in another thread that Mark Tulley found them in flower in August.

Smilies do not make up for politeness.

[Jim Ford]

'The Harraps' state:

"Mid-May to mid-July, exceptionally from April, but generally peaking from late May. Once the flower has been pollinated the column quickly withers and blackens but the remainder of the flower sometimes persists until September."

So, it really depends on how you define 'in flower'. For my purpose, I'd rather have the flower fresher than the one I took on the 14th July, where the column is withered and blackened. I guess 'The Young Hunter' doesn't count this as in "in full bloom taken at any time in July", and I'm inclined to agree.

The images shown in 'The Harraps' were taken on the 7th June in Midlothian and are much fresher.

Jim

[ceterach]

Jim

I'm not argueing any of that, I merely reported what I saw. I know it flowers elsewhere much earlier and that was why I made my comment on that particular site. Perhaps my visits coincided with particularly bad winters and a late season (??) but I am happy to go with what I see rather than what the book tells me. Harraps say one thing Lang says something different!

Perhaps I won't bother next time.

All the best

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by ceterach

Perhaps my visits coincided with particularly bad winters and a late season (??) but I am happy to go with what I see rather than what the book tells me.

The problem for me is that it's basically a 1000 mile round trip to see them in Scotland, so I'd like to get it right and 'hit' them at their best!

Local knowledge, such as you have, is always best. Perhaps I'll divert my journey to the Cairngorms next year for a couple of days, to take in the site (Pentland Hills) you've recommended.

Jim

[the young hunter]

I wasn't challenging your expertise I was simply interested to know if you had any photos of them in July. Apologies if offense was given; it was not intended.

What I meant was what Jim said; I prefer to see them fresh and not at all withered and I've got to hit it just right if I've convinced my mom to drive me 350 miles to see what she thinks is severely unimpressive. Hence, I was just querying whether I could see it in July as this would be more useful. Clearly I can so all is fine. Cheers.


mike

[ceterach]

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

The problem for me is that it's basically a 1000 mile round trip to see them in Scotland, so I'd like to get it right and 'hit' them at their best!

Local knowledge, such as you have, is always best. Perhaps I'll divert my journey to the Cairngorms next year for a couple of days, to take in the site (Pentland Hills) you've recommended.

Jim

Jim

That was the point of one of my earlier posts in this thread, I am not a local, I live on the North Downs, so perhaps there is a local out there who know the Pentland Hills. Strangely I can find nothing on the web about Lesser Twayblade there, so perhaps I dreamt it

All the best

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by the young hunter

I've got to hit it just right if I've convinced my mom to drive me 350 miles to see what she thinks is severely unimpressive.

That's some mum you've got!

Jim

[the young hunter]

I know!

She is very nice But she likes to see the orchids too


mike

[leifus]

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

That's some mum you've got!

Jim

my mum and dad wouldn't drive me that far just to get a photo in a million years!! I couldn't even persuade them to take me to princes risborough to see the violet helleborines this year