Blue flower - help please ...

[Paul mabbott]

Found this on a lead-ore spoil heap in Long Dale, Derbys today. Thought I knew what it was but before I'd confirmed or examined in more detail, I was distracted and forgot about it until unloading pictures. I'm not at all sure now - was thinking along the lines of a legume but really have no idea ....

[aeshna5]

Not a legume Paul, but one of the milkworts, Polygala sp. If the lead ore is acidic (my chemistry is very rusty!) then could be Heath Milkwort, P. serpyllifolia which has lower opposite leaves. Otherwise may be Common Milkwort, P. vulgaris, which can be on acid or alkaline soils, but leaves are alternate. Can't be sure about this from the photo.

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by aeshna5

Not a legume Paul, but one of the milkworts, Polygala sp. If the lead ore is acidic (my chemistry is very rusty!) then could be Heath Milkwort, P. serpyllifolia which has lower opposite leaves. Otherwise may be Common Milkwort, P. vulgaris, which can be on acid or alkaline soils, but leaves are alternate. Can't be sure about this from the photo.

Yes, I knew I knew it!
The leaves are alternate so P. vulgaris as one would expect on limestone (although Long Dale has some very strange geology).
Many thanks.

[Paul mabbott]

And another thing ....
This, I think is common, field scabious -


or is it? Aren't the external florets rather large? Isn't it rather late in the year for flowers to be opening? There's no possible confusing species in UK, I think? (Yes, I've seen devil's bit scabious in flower today - no chance of confusion there!). [In open grassland on limestone.]

[aeshna5]

I agree Field Scabious, Knautia arvensis. Also growing on the chalk is the daintier Small Scabious, Scabiosa columbaria. Former species has a 4-lobed corolla, whereas latter has 5 lobes. The foliage is also different, but not visible in your photo.

It's certainly past the peak flowering period, but not that unusual to see a few flowers still, especially if the plant has been cut/grazed down a bit.

[Paul mabbott]

Yes, thanks. I wasn't sure whether small scabious was British - but unlikely in Derbyshire anyway? Yes, the foliage (or what was left of it) looked 'right'.
Cheers.
Any idea about the fly?

Originally Posted by aeshna5

I agree Field Scabious, Knautia arvensis. Also growing on the chalk is the daintier Small Scabious, Scabiosa columbaria. Former species has a 4-lobed corolla, whereas latter has 5 lobes. The foliage is also different, but not visible in your photo.

It's certainly past the peak flowering period, but not that unusual to see a few flowers still, especially if the plant has been cut/grazed down a bit.

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Yes, thanks. I wasn't sure whether small scabious was British - but unlikely in Derbyshire anyway? Yes, the foliage (or what was left of it) looked 'right'.
Cheers.
Any idea about the fly?

It's many years since I've been to Derbyshire, but looking in BSBI Atlas Small Scabious seems to be fairly widespread up to the Scottish border on suitable soils, but scarce in SW Peninsula + Wales + where it does occur in last couple of places it's mainly coastal.

As for the fly, I'd say it's one of those small hoverflies I'll leave to somebody like Laurence!