Leylandii and high winds - opinions please

[Tursiops2]

A friend of mine is thinking about taking over the lease of a pub in Norfolk, he took me to have a look at it at the weekend. With the pub comes a large plot of land and I'm now writing my report on the potential for landscaping and development of this plot as a resource. Before I commit it to writing, I'd welcome a knowlegeable opinion on one thing that concerns me.

Most of the land comprises a field of about half an acre (if my maths are right - approx. 70m x 30m?), bounded on 3 sides by private gardens, and used as a cheap short-stay caravan park. Much of the southern boundary of this field is marked by a single close-planted row of leylandii, planted, I would say, about 30 years ago as screening between the caravans and gardens.

These trees have not been tended-to in any way since, and have now reached a considerable height (ca. 30-40ft at a guess). Horticulturally they're a serious problem as they put a good 50% of the field in shade, and I'm recommending they be felled on this basis alone. However, I'm also concerned about their vulnerability to high winds.

This is not something I'm used to judging - but, thinking about those trees, thinking back to the hurricane of '87, and thinking forwards to the likely consequences if any of them do come down, makes me extremely uneasy.

Sorry, I don't have any pics. On the basis of what I've described, am I right to be concerned?

T2

[Ollie]

Hi T2
I'm no expert on trees but in the village I live in there was a single leylandii tree stood in a corner of a garden. This tree was about the height of the ones you describe. Last winter during a windy spell, not that bad a winds either compared to what we have previously seen this tree came down. It wasn't uprooted but snapped off about four foot above ground level. It took the telephone wires and some slates from a house roof with it.
It may have been that this tree was a little more exposed it being the only one but yes for this reason alone I would say your concerns were justified.
Roger

[svenrufus]

I'm not aware that Leylandii are any more vulnerable to high winds than other types of tree, and I would say that it would be the same for all trees, if they are in good condition, then there should be no problem in leaving them be, if there is any sign of disease or damage that migh lead to the tree being vulenrabel, then any species which has the potential to harm others if blown over should be - if not felled - at least give a once over by a qualified tree surgeon.

Also, the damage from trees such as Leylandii is likely to be less than that from other species - most of the woody bulk is lower down the tree, and the tops and sides made up mostly of relatively thin aterial which will do substantialy less harm than a tree with thick branches and wodespread crown up to the top. Not to say it won't do any damage, just that it is - all else being equal - likely to be much less damaging than many of our native broadleaves.

All that aside, I would fell them, just as a matter of principle. Hate the things. Your inclination is to do that for other reasons, I would support those reasons. I don't think you have anything to fear from an H+S perspective.

If your friend wants to keep them despite your recommendations, and you remain concerned that there might be the risk of damage, get a tree surgeon in to look them over and say one way or another. It is not clear what your friend wants to do with the site. If it is to be private use, not open to the public there is much less need for that approach. If it is to stay as a caravan park, then I would say get them checked over regardless of any specific reasons for worrying, just to make sure that as a landowner and almost landlord, that he has taken his responsibilities, his 'Duty of Care', seriously.

[dragonfly]

no need to be over concerned as in there native country they can reach 60 feet tall
but
my opion is this they are a pest and should be cut down in the winter months only

[ZOSO]

Tree fall depends on a lot of things. The moisture content of the soil, the depth and/or strength of the root system. The amount of resistance there is to wind and the flexibility of the tree.

ZOSO

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by Tursiops2

A friend of mine is thinking about taking over the lease of a pub in Norfolk, he took me to have a look at it at the weekend. With the pub comes a large plot of land and I'm now writing my report on the potential for landscaping and development of this plot as a resource. Before I commit it to writing, I'd welcome a knowlegeable opinion on one thing that concerns me.

Most of the land comprises a field of about half an acre (if my maths are right - approx. 70m x 30m?), bounded on 3 sides by private gardens, and used as a cheap short-stay caravan park. Much of the southern boundary of this field is marked by a single close-planted row of leylandii, planted, I would say, about 30 years ago as screening between the caravans and gardens.

These trees have not been tended-to in any way since, and have now reached a considerable height (ca. 30-40ft at a guess). Horticulturally they're a serious problem as they put a good 50% of the field in shade, and I'm recommending they be felled on this basis alone. However, I'm also concerned about their vulnerability to high winds.

This is not something I'm used to judging - but, thinking about those trees, thinking back to the hurricane of '87, and thinking forwards to the likely consequences if any of them do come down, makes me extremely uneasy.

Sorry, I don't have any pics. On the basis of what I've described, am I right to be concerned?

T2

If you think they would provide privacy and a good wind break for the caravan park (depending on prevailing wind direction etc) could they be lopped to a reasonable, manageable height say 9ft and thereafter be maintained at that height. They would have some practical use and managed like this should naturally in-fill any gaps around the lower parts of the trees.

Cheers,

Adam

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by dragonfly

no need to be over concerned as in there native country they can reach 60 feet tall
but
my opion is this they are a pest and should be cut down in the winter months only

Hi Dragonfly,

They aren't really native to any where as they are a man-made species, though the parent species originated in North America.

"The Leyland cypress is a sterile cross between two American species - the Monterey cypress (Cupressus macrocarpa) and the Nootka cypress (Chamaecyparis nootkatensis). An x symbol is placed before the scientific names of such hybrids - so the Leyland cypress becomes x Cupressocyparis leylandii.
The Nootka cypress has been transferred recently to a new genus - its new name is Xanthocyparis nootkatensis - so Leyland cypress should figure as x Cuprocyparis leylandii from now on."

The parent trees came from opposite ends of the Pacific coast of N. America - the resulting cross between a Monterey Cypress (Cupressus macrocarpa) from California and the Nootka or Alaska Cypress (Chamaecyparis nootkatensis). The original progenitors were growing close together in a tree collection in Park Wood, Leighton Hall near Welshpool, Powys, adjacent to what is now the Royal Forestry Society's Charles Ackers Redwood Grove and Naylor Pinetum.

The cross occurred when the female flowers or cones of Nootka Cypress were fertilised by pollen from Monterey Cypress. That took place in 1888 on the Leighton Estate near Welshpool, Powys.The two parent species would never have met in the wild as their natural ranges are thousands of miles apart.

The hybrid was named after C J Leyland, brother-in-law of the owner of the estate who took some of the seedlings and planted them on his own land at Haggerston Castle in Northumberland. This first cross is sometimes known as 'Haggerston Grey' as its scale-like leaves are often grey at the base. It is the common form of the two crosses.

About 20 years later, a further cross occurred at Leighton Estate but the other way round when the cones of the Monterey Cypress were fertilised with pollen from the Nootka. The result of that cross was a second form, baptised "Leighton Green".

Cheers,

Adam

[aeshna5]

Originally Posted by dragonfly

no need to be over concerned as in there native country they can reach 60 feet tall
but
my opion is this they are a pest and should be cut down in the winter months only

Umm- they don't really have a native country! The parents Chamaecyparis nootkatensis + Cupressus macrocarpa are American natives but the hybrid doesn't naturally occur in US as ranges of parents do not overlap.

The dreaded (by many) hybrid arose in Wales + apparently can reach up to 36 metres!

[Tursiops2]

So - probably not an imminent hazard but worth getting checked by a professional, yes? Fair enough. It's all speculative at the moment, but if we take this on I want the brewery to deal with these trees before we have to. I think I've got a good argument but an H&S angle would lend weight. I hate the things too, and I can use the timber

cheers all
T2

[The Woodman]

Adam has mentioned Leighton Estate near Welshpool. If anyone wants to see great trees, pay a visit. Make a weekend of it and go to Powis Castle Estate as well.

Sorry, nothing to do with the subject and request, just fantastic redwoods, Douglas Firs, ash, etc., etc.

[Wild-Woman]

I really don't like the two we have at the bottom of our garden that are about thirty footers, but I feel worried about having them felled as they are a roosting place for approximately 50-80 starlings. Wouldn't know what to do really. I'd hate to lose the starlings.

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Wild-Woman

I really don't like the two we have at the bottom of our garden that are about thirty footers, but I feel worried about having them felled as they are a roosting place for approximately 50-80 starlings. Wouldn't know what to do really. I'd hate to lose the starlings.

Top them and grow russian vine up them.

I have a couple of dead Montereys (and one just alive)
covered in russian vine and ivy. The starlings adore
them.

Don't let the Russian vine get anywhere else, and beware
that it does drop a fair amount of litter - but you will keep the
starlings!

[Wild-Woman]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Top them and grow russian vine up them.

I have a couple of dead Montereys (and one just alive)
covered in russian vine and ivy. The starlings adore
them.

Don't let the Russian vine get anywhere else, and beware
that it does drop a fair amount of litter - but you will keep the
starlings!

Like the sound of the ivy. Not sure about the Russian vine as that really does take off doesn't it? The ivy would be a good attractant to Holly Blues so that's a nice idea. I shall put it to the man with a saw!