eyebrights

IanS · #1 (**permalink**) 09-07-2007, 10:03 PM

Anyone know of good links to images of the different species? I'm just wondering if I managed to find chalk eyebright yesterday or whether its the more common one!
cheers
Ian

PeterJL · #2 (**permalink**) 09-07-2007, 11:57 PM

AlanS who posts on here is a national expert on Euphrasia and he delivered a talk to BSBI last year with photos. You can download the photos from his site if you have powerpoint:

Alan Silverside - research index

IanS · #3 (**permalink**) 13-07-2007, 05:00 PM

Thanks for the info.
Have downloaded the presentation, but still non the wiser as to which my plants are! Will have to post them up to see if anyone else is brave enough to ID them.
Cheers
Ian

AlanS · #4 (**permalink**) 15-07-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterJL

AlanS who posts on here is a national expert on Euphrasia and he delivered a talk to BSBI last year with photos. You can download the photos from his site if you have powerpoint:

Alan Silverside - research index

Ah yes, I really intended that the PowerPoint would be up for a limited time, but it is still there at present. There are various signs in it that final production was hurried - typographical errors, statements not as clear as they might have been - but of course it was to illustrate the talk I was giving and was never designed to stand alone. I had thought of reformatting much of it into an online guide to Euphrasia and may still do so, but that would take more time than I have available at present.

A warning to anyone who downloads it that it is also a very large file (24 mB). I was ensuring that the photographs would have good definition in my talk (well, as good as the photographs themselves allowed!) and I used very little compression. Anyone downloading it had better have broadband!

Anyhow, IanS, what do you mean by "Chalk Eyebright". Some have attempted to make up common names for these, but they are not generally used and not adopted by the BSBI.

One of the two main species on chalk is Euphrasia pseudokerneri - but this is very local, confined to the really "good" bits of herb-rich chalk turf and it will not be in flower for another month.
The other is E. nemorosa, which is common on the chalk, but also locally frequent in herb-rich grassland generally (in England at least, less so in Wales and Scotland). It is in flower right now.
There are photographs of both, with some identification pointers, in my PowerPoint, but both species are variable.

If you post Eyebright pictures I'll give my opinion when I can (bearing in mind I shall often be away). But identification from a photograph will not always be possible. When I name Eyebrights for BSBI members, I need to see enough material to show the range of variation. I then almost invariably use a stereo microscope to examine the several critically important features.

Also bear in mind that they all hybridise to a lesser or greater extent. Most hybrids are fertile and sometimes hybrids completely replace the parents or spread independently. For the forthcoming BSBI book on hybrids I have accepted 66 different hybrids! (And I have been asked to check the validity of a few more.)

And since we are carrying out ongoing DNA studies, we may yet move the goalposts ....

Alan Silverside

PeterJL · #5 (**permalink**) 15-07-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanS

Ah yes, I really intended that the PowerPoint would be up for a limited time, but it is still there at present.....Alan Silverside

Even though you may see the imperfections Alan it is a superb extra resource for those of us who have battled and lost with Euphrasia id in the field. Many of my botanical friends have downloaded it (it's very quick (30 seconds) to download with modern broadband) and very much appreciate your allowing us to use it.

So thanks very much - I'm inclined to go hunting for E. cambrica in Snowdonia now - I was given a site for it a year or two ago but wouldn't have known enough about it to recognise or find it or avoid treading on it.

IanS · #6 (**permalink**) 18-07-2007, 10:18 PM

Hi Alan
Sorry been away for a few days and only just back online. Anyway I think that you have already solved the issue for me when you say that E. nemorosa is in flower right now. I took my photos a fortnight ago and can be pretty confident that they are this species. I will get them on here so you can take a look though.

The name 'chalk eyebright' came from a Natural England document about the Devils Dyke in Cambridgeshire. This site is supposed to hold a population of this species (Euphrasia pseudokerneri) hence my original quest for eyebright details. Luckily Peter knew of your presentation which I have downloaded. Thanks! Very interesting presentation and some great shots of these flowers. None of my own flower books contained any details of these plants. Even Rose only mentions that other species exist so it is great to have your document now!

Cheers
Ian

AlanS · #7 (**permalink**) 18-07-2007, 11:25 PM

Hi Ian,

If it helps, Euphrasia pseudokerneri grows at the same spot on the Devil's Dyke as Spotted Catsear (Hypochaeris maculata) and other goodies.

However, it hybridises with E. nemorosa, with hybrids probably being more numerous than pure E. pseudokerneri along the Dyke. Hybrids come into flower earlier.

I think I shall revise my PowerPoint so that it acts as a self-standing identification guide, though I shall wait for a while as Clive Stace is busy on the 3rd edition of his New Flora of the British Isles and there is a good chance that we will harmonise on nomenclature.

Alan

IanS · #8 (**permalink**) 19-07-2007, 10:27 PM

hi
Interesting! I didnt know spotted catsear grew around there. I have seen a tamed version at the top of the great orme, llandudno. They have a rare plant display in a walled garden. It wasnt in flower when I saw it though. Can you PM the details? What else is there on the dyke? I found the Lizard orchids, chalkhill butterflies and a range of more common plants on there, but its a fair few miles long so must be much more to discover!
Ian

IanS · #9 (**permalink**) 19-07-2007, 10:40 PM

So is this a hybrid or E nemorosa?
Thanks!
Ian

AlanS · #10 (**permalink**) 19-07-2007, 11:39 PM

Hi Ian, your photograph shows only part of the plant, so I cannot judge its branching or see the important characters of the stem leaves.

Basically it is Euphrasia nemorosa, as we pretty much expected, but the teeth on the floral leaves are more finely acute than usual. This could be a sign of hybridisation from E. pseudokerneri, but equally it can be part of the natural variation in E. nemorosa. On what I can see I would call it straight E. nemorosa.

Alan Silverside