Kinder Scout Fence

[Richard G.]

Interesting story in the news today about a National Trust proposal to erect a fence around the Kinder plateau, primarily to keep the sheep off, but also to enable gully blocking and some replanting to stabilise erosion and regenerate the blanket bog up there.

BBC News story here and Facebook page where you can comment on the proposals here.

Not really sure how I feel about this. I hate bog trotting at the best of times and that's one of the reasons I only visit Kinder when it's bone dry or frozen solid. Some of those flooded gully's will be positively dangerous though, I've occasionally been up to my thighs in Peak bogs and it's not a pleasant experience; I wonder if this is essentially going to make a large area out-of-bounds on safety grounds, at least for those with the good sense to avoid it? I can see the benefits too mind, the erosion not just on Kinder but on many other parts of the Dark Peak moors is all too clear to see. Maybe I need to move to the Lakes...

[sunnydale]

Crikey Richard, this is the first I've heard about it! To be honest, I've said for a long time that we shouldn't really be wandering all over the plateau!
It's not necessary, as most people who walk there are only interested in the views they can see from the edge anyway!

I suspect the path around the edge would remain open and personally, I don't have a problem with the actual plateau being fenced off, especially if it means protecting the Peat/bogs and the wildlife/flora that depend on it/them.
It's protection is vital for other environmental reasons too.

I'll be watching for further developments with interest.

Tracey

[Richard G.]

I don't know Tracey, I don't exercise my right to roam that much and generally stick to paths, but anything that erodes those hard won concessions rankles with me.

I probably should have mentioned that the NT are not stopping people going onto the plateau and I think the BBC story was a little mischievous in mentioning the trespass, as if implying this was the case. In fact the consultation asks whether people would prefer stiles or gates where the fence crosses rights of way.

I spend more time on Shelf Stones/Bleaklow and we already have similar fences over there. The problem is they're not marked on the maps, since they are a temporary measure and, even as a 'local', it's taken me some time to find the stiles to get in/out of the protected area, I could imagine it being a little frustrating for someone less familiar with the area.

I've also heard that the regeneration on Shelf Stones had limited success, certainly in the early days, with brashing being blown away in storms. And the brashing has to be cut from elsewhere, leaving one of my local haunts looking very patchy.

[Richard G.]

Been reading some more this morning on the NT Blog about their gully blocking, already 1100 gullies blocked on Kinder plateau

Think that settles it; other than the edges, the plateau will be a no-go area for me. At best it'll be an unpleasantly muddy and slippery trudge, at worst an unnavigable and treacherous place.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by Richard G.

Think that settles it; other than the edges, the plateau will be a no-go area for me. At best it'll be an unpleasantly muddy and slippery trudge, at worst an unnavigable and treacherous place.

Good for wildlife though.

[Richard G.]

Oh no doubting that, but if I take the BBC’s mischievous position for a moment, people went to jail in the process of gaining unfettered access to this place. I don’t so much see an issue with the fence, other than the possible inconvenience of finding a means to cross it, but it seems to me that impenetrable bog is a potential obstacle to the right to freely roam this area.

As I said before, I’m still on the fence (no pun intended), since it’s not a place close to my heart, but on principle, I feel somewhat uneasy about the situation.

[sunnydale]

Originally Posted by Richard G.

Been reading some more this morning on the NT Blog about their gully blocking, already 1100 gullies blocked on Kinder plateau

Think that settles it; other than the edges, the plateau will be a no-go area for me..

It's very rare that I go anywhere other than around the edge anyway. I love the climb up and enjoy the views once I'm there, especially if there's snow around....but I don't feel the need to go trudging around over the plateau just because I can

Like you, I don't have a strong desire to exercise my right to roam - especially on such a fragile place as Kinder Scout.

[Richard G.]

I’m on Bleaklow/Shelf Stones more often than Kinder, but other than the Pennine Way and Doctor’s Gate, there are no rights of way and precious few other paths; exercising my right to roam is done more by necessity than desire. In fact my most used routes onto Kinder are via Sandy Heys or over Harry Hut, both include pathless sections according to the map.

I’ve been into the plateau only twice, one of those occasions with a ranger, so I don’t expect I’ll be personally affected by this, but I do feel strongly that any loss of those very hard won rights, for whatever reason, should be resisted.

I’d expected more comment on the Facebook page, but there seems to be precious little interest. Maybe fewer people than I thought use the plateau or they’re just indifferent towards the changes.

[sunnydale]

Originally Posted by Richard G.

I do feel strongly that any loss of those very hard won rights, for whatever reason, should be resisted.

Richard, I probably made it sound as though I don't appreciate what walkers/ramblers/hikers have gained since the mass trespass on Kinder. It had a far-reaching, positive impact and I agree, we should strive to protect our right to roam.

Having said that, in this instance I just feel that we should accept the temporary closure of the plateau and allow it to regenerate and recover (if that's possible), as it seems the only way to ensure it's survival in the years to come.
Having the right to roam is great.....but not at the expense of destroying such important habitats and being left with nothing to roam on anyway.

Tracey

[Richard G.]

How temporary are these measures though; if the plateau is overgrazed, why would you allow sheep back on again once it’s recovered, hence the fence and blanket bog must surely be permanent, if they’re serious about its long term future.

As you say though, there’s still plenty of room for walkers, maybe I’m being melodramatic and making a mountain out of a peat bog, I do wonder what Benny Rothman would have to say about it though.