Changes in the Gallery

[StuartDH]

After recently smashing through the 20,000 images milestone we now have a huge collection of outstanding photos, but we still want to see many, many more With spring just around the corner, now's a great time to start looking for those photo opportunities to add to the gallery, and maybe even next year's calendar

In preparation for many new uploads, we're currently working on a bit of a spring clean that should help to clear the way and reorganise the gallery for lots of new images. During the past year we've built up a massive colleciton of some the UK's most common species, and we've now got literally hundreds of images of grey squirrels, robins, mallards etc. To help keep the populations under control, and give some of the rarer species a fighting chance, we're currently reducing the numbers of the more common species - just like in the real world

As well as carrying out a cull at the moment we'll also be adding some form of contraception to help keep the population of common species under control The usual standards will be in place for uploading all images - please click here for more info - but we'll also be raising the bar for photographs where there are already many similar pictures. If you notice that some of your previous uploads are missing then it may be due to the above reason...sorry However, in the long run it should make for an even better gallery that is easier to search and navigate.

The good news is that in addition to the above, over the next few weeks we also plan to add:

• A gallery editors 'pick of the week' page to bring some of the older uploads into view
• A facility to sell images online
• Monthly photography competitions with the odd prize or two

Thanks for all your help and contributions and here's looking forward to seeing many more fantastic photos in 2007

Stu

[matt_xyz]

just bumping this post in case anyone's missed it.

[Jon]

Originally Posted by Stuart DH

After recently smashing through the 20,000 images milestone we now have a huge collection of outstanding photos, but we still want to see many, many more With spring just around the corner, now's a great time to start looking for those photo opportunities to add to the gallery, and maybe even next year's calendar

In preparation for many new uploads, we're currently working on a bit of a spring clean that should help to clear the way and reorganise the gallery for lots of new images. During the past year we've built up a massive colleciton of some the UK's most common species, and we've now got literally hundreds of images of grey squirrels, robins, mallards etc. To help keep the populations under control, and give some of the rarer species a fighting chance, we're currently reducing the numbers of the more common species - just like in the real world

As well as carrying out a cull at the moment we'll also be adding some form of contraception to help keep the population of common species under control The usual standards will be in place for uploading all images - please click here for more info - but we'll also be raising the bar for photographs where there are already many similar pictures. If you notice that some of your previous uploads are missing then it may be due to the above reason...sorry However, in the long run it should make for an even better gallery that is easier to search and navigate.

The good news is that in addition to the above, over the next few weeks we also plan to add:

• A gallery editors 'pick of the week' page to bring some of the older uploads into view
• A facility to sell images online
• Monthly photography competitions with the odd prize or two

Thanks for all your help and contributions and here's looking forward to seeing many more fantastic photos in 2007

Stu

Stu
I am in total agreement with all the listed criteria, I do think this will result in a higher quality collection and it will make me personally reflect carefully on quality and subject before submission. I know it is sometimes difficult not to submit shots of robins for example, I have submitted quite a few myself but unless I can submit something a little different to the regular portrait shot then there is little point - as you have indicated if you have portrait shots of a robins and a good ones at that then just how many do you need?
I just hope I can hit the mark - lets see! Jon

[DaiTheDragon]

I can quite understand that the database needs a clear out. I also realise that there are a lot of excellent photographs of the common species.
What worries me is that any newish members who are still learning their photography skills may think that because we already have loads of shots of Robins for example they may be reluctant to upload their images. I can remember when I uploaded my first photograph and had some comments I felt really special so it would be a shame if others were not given the opportunity of receiving some comments or criticism.
I doubt it would be feasible but it would be good if you had 2 sections, one for accomplished photographers and one for beginners. It would be up to the individual to be honest with themselves as to what section they should be in.

Dai

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by DaiTheDragon

I can quite understand that the database needs a clear out. I also realise that there are a lot of excellent photographs of the common species.
What worries me is that any newish members who are still learning their photography skills may think that because we already have loads of shots of Robins for example they may be reluctant to upload their images. I can remember when I uploaded my first photograph and had some comments I felt really special so it would be a shame if others were not given the opportunity of receiving some comments or criticism.
I doubt it would be feasible but it would be good if you had 2 sections, one for accomplished photographers and one for beginners. It would be up to the individual to be honest with themselves as to what section they should be in.

Dai

of course people who just want critique can put their pics in the forum images gallery and post them into the photo critique forum

as regards the two gallery idea - i could see that causing a lot of animosity and trouble for the editors when a posted pic was moved from the accomplished to the begginers section.

[speckled wood]

Originally Posted by DaiTheDragon

I can quite understand that the database needs a clear out. I also realise that there are a lot of excellent photographs of the common species.
What worries me is that any newish members who are still learning their photography skills may think that because we already have loads of shots of Robins for example they may be reluctant to upload their images. I can remember when I uploaded my first photograph and had some comments I felt really special so it would be a shame if others were not given the opportunity of receiving some comments or criticism.
I doubt it would be feasible but it would be good if you had 2 sections, one for accomplished photographers and one for beginners. It would be up to the individual to be honest with themselves as to what section they should be in.

Dai

This looks to be to be an excellent idea and well worth thinking about.
Whilst agreeing with the idea of a "cull" one issue that I have a slight concern about is where a image has been used in the Reference section in that will there be a cross check to ensure that such images are not "culled"?

[Wild-Woman]

Good idea Stu. It will make the WAB gallery one of the best on the net. I'm sure new members will be fine about the rules. I've got a shed load of pictures I've taken since I've had my FZ7 but I wouldn't upload them because they're for my use and reference and the only person who can practise your photography is you. We get lots of tips and ideas from the more experienced photographers and the critique section helps us newbie David Bailey's.

Well done Stu and gallery ed's and mods. Pat on back!

Jules

[matt_xyz]

I'm also keen to ensure that all members, new and old alike, are not deterred from uploading to the gallery. So please feel free to continue uploading common species, but just be aware that our standards may be slightly higher for these. This doesn't mean they have to be stunning shots, but size of subject, sharpness, exposure, graininess etc will all be looked at a bit more closely for a shot of a mallard then they would be for a shot of a rarer species.

The gallery editors regularly discuss possible ways to change the gallery i.e. different quality levels etc. Unfortunately any such changes will inevitably increase the time it takes to moderate images, but we will continue to consider the various possibilities.

Matt

[badgerwatcher]

I would welcome a photography classroom, as a complete beginner, where the many experts could unscramble my 'took it on a night-time setting without flash' type of description into photographerspeak, and then tell me how I should have done it. I'm seeing great stuff, have no idea even of the scope of my camera, and reading the manual isn't helping at the moment as there are so many choices. I know I'm no good at it at the moment. Most of us know where we are skill-wise, I should think.
Looking at Boddie, Eeyore and John's pictures of Red Kites in Wales, and reading their settings, etc., I still have no idea how they achieved such amazing shots!

[colincurry]

I am pretty new at this game and learning all the time. I cringe when I look back at a lot my early snaps (and some of the current ones, too). I think that it is a natural progression to gain some expertise and to become more self critical and to cull one's own snaps in a more ruthless manner. Having said that, if I snap something new, however bad, I will keep it as record. I certainly try to be pretty selective when uploading pics to the Gallery. I just had a robin rejected that seemed quite OK to me - I now hope it was part of the culling process rather than any particular failing on my part.

I welcome the change in practice in sending an acceptance or rejection email. That is very positive. I have already mentioned in a similar the terrific job done by moderators and the amount of work this must entail. To that end, I recommended an automatic rejection slip that would involve very little effort from moderators.

In view of the changes proposed (which seem reasonable to me), I wonder if it would be possible to refine the automatic rejection slip by incorporating a code that would state the reason for rejection. Moderators have to make their decisions based on quantifiable criteria and I wonder if would be too much for them say to include a letter or number specifiying the actual criterion - particularly if it is to cull. The automatic rejection could list the cr9iteria. The moderator would have to initiate the email as now, but add the relevant letter or number. I would hope that this would not add too much to the moderators' already heavy workload, and would be helpful to us all (old soldiers and newbies); and probably encourage people to keep uploading. I am not sure how easy it would be to set up something like this. That is for others to say. It is also up others to say whether or not they would welcome something like this should it be feasible.

Colin

[Oy]

Originally Posted by colincurry

In view of the changes proposed (which seem reasonable to me), I wonder if it would be possible to refine the automatic rejection slip by incorporating a code that would state the reason for rejection. Moderators have to make their decisions based on quantifiable criteria and I wonder if would be too much for them say to include a letter or number specifiying the actual criterion - particularly if it is to cull.

That's a great idea Colin

[nightshade]

PLease do not discourage the keen members

[Paul mabbott]

Can't disagree with the need to reduce numbers of pics of common species &c - seems a necessary idea although I do see the problems for a newbee who has only got one decent picture which is of a common species!
I don't look at the bird galleries much but have noticed the large numbers of 7-spot ladybird pictures in the insect gallery so can imagine the problems with birds. However, one plea and one suggestion.
There are different, subjective ways of judging photos. I've said this before and am not being contentious but some of us look at photos as 'good' pictures from an aesthetic point of view (are they well composed, balanced &c) while others look at them as plants/animals for identification, analysis, behaviour (whatever) in a photograph. It's not impossible to combine both, of course, and these should be the preferred pictures for the gallery. However, I would be unhappy to lose pictures which showed good recognition features because the composition or whatever is 'bad'. I don't think this is going to apply to robins or 7-spot ladybirds
A suggestion, since what makes a 'good' picture is undoubtedly very subjective, why not bring an element of audience participation into the cull? Pick the best six and have a poll for retention or culling? That way you take some stress off the gallery editors and make the decision more 'democratic'. It might also be interesting to see how views on what is a 'good' picture, or not, varied ....

Originally Posted by Jon

........ will make me personally reflect carefully on quality and subject before submission. I know it is sometimes difficult not to submit shots of robins for example, I have submitted quite a few myself but unless I can submit something a little different to the regular portrait shot then there is little point - as you have indicated if you have portrait shots of a robins and a good ones at that then just how many do you need?
Jon

[Tormentil]

I must admit that when I read that the standard of pics of common species is to be raised, I wondered if the galleries would become elitist and discourage newbies from participating.

Having said that I do not disagree with the current cull.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

I must admit that when I read that the standard of pics of common species is to be raised, I wondered if the galleries would become elitist and discourage newbies from participating.

Having said that I do not disagree with the current cull.

there is of course no particular reason why newbies cannot submit pictures of rarer species or high quality shots of commoner ones as

a) not everyone who is new to wab is new to photography and some of our "newbies" might be highly accomplished photographers

b) even if people are new to photography , not every rare species requires hugely expensive kit or huge photographic skill - some of our newbies might be very interested in rare bugs , or fungi , or lichens or whatever and thus be ideally placed to photograph them for the galleries

c) raising the standards slightly should not put anyone off - IMO a high standard gives new photographers something to aspire to and the feeling of satisfaction will be that much higher when their shots are accepted. (if they need help and advice to reach that standard then the photo forums and group are here to help them)

d) someone who is new to the site will look at the gallery with fresh eyes and thus be that much better placed to spot the gaps and maybe seek to fill them.

[Garden Carpet]

perhaps those with very similar pics of the one subject might offer their pictures for culling? Surely one picture of a particular colony of birds.. or clump of fungi is enough from one person?
jaki

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Garden Carpet

perhaps those with very similar pics of the one subject might offer their pictures for culling? Surely one picture of a particular colony of birds.. or clump of fungi is enough from one person?
jaki

It is almost certainly the best plan to just go with what stu said originally - ie to let the gallery editors spring clean the gallery and select what to delete - anything else just makes more work for them.

[Garden Carpet]

Originally Posted by eeyore

It is almost certainly the best plan to just go with what stu said originally - ie to let the gallery editors spring clean the gallery and select what to delete - anything else just makes more work for them.

Yup.. que sera, sera!
jaki

[Beryl]

You could have a sort of thing (I don't know quite how to word it ) Wher by peeps photos are kept on the gallery for 6 months then as each one reaches the time limet be taken down except of course for rare species. Or some thing like that

[Barbara]

I dread to think how many robins I have in my gallery. When I first registered with the site, I was uploading images everyday, but then my standards changed and I was more critical of the images I was considering uploading and so I culled myself and I don't post images as often as I used to do. However, if the first images I posted had been rejected, then I wouldn't have posted again and I would have gone elswhere. It would be a shame if this happened to new members. I understand the need to cull and I am more than happy to have any of my images culled.

Could we not have a new members gallery where new members could post their images, and as their confidence grew upload to the normal gallery or be plucked from the new member gallery by the gallery editors as they saw fit. But after saying all that I guess it would put far too much pressure on them as they have enough to do already. Just my thoughts

Barbara

[eeyore]

I can see what you are saying about the need not to discourage people - but isnt it a little "elitist" for want of a better word to assume that new members are likely to take less good pictures than those of us who have been here a long time. As WAB is open to all our next new member could be Andy Rouse for all we know.

As to those who are new to photography (new members or not) i dont think anyone is suggesting making the standards so high that they couldnt reasonably reach them - just a slightly more rigourous interpretation of the rules already in place (ie that pics should be sharp , well exposed , and not to noisy) surely most new photographers would not have a problem with these requirements.

[Barbara]

If you were replying to my post eeyore, I only said could post their images, not had to post their images in a certain gallery. Apologies if you weren't replying to my post.