Gallery Ratings Switched Off

[cherrybee]

Originally Posted by Beryl

What fault does it have? I thought it was a scratch on the lens, that was why you had it sent away. Send it away again and get the loan camer if it is better than yours.

I told you they said it was done and when I went to get it the scratch was still there.Apparently it went to germany where they supposedly found other faults which they repaired.I kicked right off and it was put back for repair again and the loan camera stayed with me until it came back with the scratch removed.I couldnt keep the loan camera it was apparently one someone had a deposit on.It was the only one they had that was close to my own.Anyway my camera isnt that bad just the zoom not as good as the loan one but the macro wasnt as good on that as is mine.One day I might get something else but until then i am trying to improve with what I got.which basically what the thread is about to do the best you can with what you have so the photos are acceptable and have a chance of a good rating or nice comments.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by cherrybee

I told you they said it was done and when I went to get it the scratch was still there.Apparently it went to germany where they supposedly found other faults which they repaired.I kicked right off and it was put back for repair again and the loan camera stayed with me until it came back with the scratch removed.I couldnt keep the loan camera it was apparently one someone had a deposit on.It was the only one they had that was close to my own.Anyway my camera isnt that bad just the zoom not as good as the loan one but the macro wasnt as good on that as is mine.One day I might get something else but until then i am trying to improve with what I got.which basically what the thread is about to do the best you can with what you have so the photos are acceptable and have a chance of a good rating or nice comments.

Well I would say the Zoom was good. 8X is very good. You don't alway need a long zoom any way to get a good pic

[jerryh]

Only just read this thread, so coming in a bit late here....

Any rating system is of little use if it cannot be used as a guide to the merit of the shot (whatever that means), so I fully support Stuart's decision to switch it off and raise the debate.

I agree with many of the comments above, that there are a number of different ways in which a photo might have some merit (technical, effort involved in getting the shot, rarity of the subject, unusual view, interesting behaviour, etc) and I would add another that I think is very important - aesthetic value. Matt's second shot above comes into this category.

I think one of the Bittern shots mentioned above is mine. I posted it knowing it was technically far from perfect, but it was a view of a difficult-to-photograph bird, and (quite honestly) I was really chuffed to have got the shot!

I like the idea of a weekly "best-of" gallery, if the mods don't mind the work involved in selecting the shots.
Another suggestion, but rather complicated, would be to have several ratings for the different aspects - technical, interest, aesthetic, etc), and let members rate photos on whichever is appropriate. Ultimately, though, this may fall down in the way that the current system has.

Jerry

[eeyore]

I dont think i ever used the rating system , either to register approval of a shot or as a guide to its quality.

One issue is that everyone is looking for different things from a picture , one person might look for inspiration , another for sheer wow factor , another for a particular ID , another just for pretty pics, another to see what a freind of theirs has taken recently , another for educational resources, etc etc so it is impossible for a rating system to sum up what "merit" means to an individual.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I dont think i ever used the rating system , either to register approval of a shot or as a guide to its quality.

One issue is that everyone is looking for different things from a picture , one person might look for inspiration , another for sheer wow factor , another for a particular ID , another just for pretty pics, another to see what a freind of theirs has taken recently , another for educational resources, etc etc so it is impossible for a rating system to sum up what "merit" means to an individual.

I have to agree all the way with that. I don't even care for the rank sytem , people racing just to get ahead to the top by posting and commenting on almost any thing good or rough

[Tormentil]

Originally Posted by jerryh

..... that there are a number of different ways in which a photo might have some merit (technical, effort involved in getting the shot, rarity of the subject, unusual view, interesting behaviour, etc)

How does one know the "effort involved in getting the shot", unless you were with the photographer ?

How do you judge, from a photo, patience or field craft ?

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

How does one know the "effort involved in getting the shot", unless you were with the photographer ?

How do you judge, from a photo, patience or field craft ?

This is ofcourse true. I spent an hour and 45 mins to get my Kingfisher, I was over the moon , having never seen one before in life but I have to agree it wasn't quite wab acceptable

[Barbara]

I rate images in the gallery, I use the star rating because the option is there. I take into account for example, whether the photographer has experienced difficulty in capturing the image. Everybody has different tastes, be it insects, flowers or birds and still we would all probably rate an image differently. I myself would prefer if we did not have an option to rate an image. I would be quite happy to see outstanding shots in their own gallery chosen by the moderators. But this would put an extra strain on the moderators like has been said previously and this may not be an option to us.

Could I just add, that I have looked at some my own pics tonight right from the first pic I uploaded when I joined the site in March and was new to photography. Some of my earlier pics are really poor quality and think it would be a good idea if we were able to have an option to delete our own pics if we wanted to. This would put less strain on the moderators and help clean up the gallery at the same time......just a thought
Barbara

[cherrybee]

Originally Posted by Barbara

Could I just add, that I have looked at some my own pics tonight right from the first pic I uploaded when I joined the site in March and was new to photography. Some of my earlier pics are really poor quality and think it would be a good idea if we were able to have an option to delete our own pics if we wanted to. This would put less strain on the moderators and help clean up the gallery at the same time......just a thought
Barbara

Excellent idea Barbara>I think an option to delete our own photos a very good idea that way as you said would take the strain from the moderators I for one would like to take some off.I have too many anyway and would like to take off some of the earlier ones.

[Jonny]

Originally Posted by Barbara

I think it would be a good idea if we were able to have an option to delete our own pics if we wanted to. This would put less strain on the moderators and help clean up the gallery at the same time......just a thought
Barbara

I agree Barbara.........On Bushcraft UK we can delete our photo's and I do delete all the old ones that don't get any interest and put up some new ones...........

[eeyore]

nother point is that unless you know the photographer it is impossible to assess the effort they put into taking the shot , or what it means to them. For instance I do quite a bit of work with people who are expereincing severe learning difficulties but who are interested in photography as a means of expressing themselves.

For one of them to get a decent pic of a very common species would be a major achievement and I might encourage them to upload it here and rate it accordingly , but if I put up a pic of a squirell on a bird table say I wouldnt expect anyone to rate it highly at all.

[Boddie]

Originally Posted by eeyore

nother point is that unless you know the photographer it is impossible to assess the effort they put into taking the shot , or what it means to them. For instance I do quite a bit of work with people who are expereincing severe learning difficulties but who are interested in photography as a means of expressing themselves.

For one of them to get a decent pic of a very common species would be a major achievement and I might encourage them to upload it here and rate it accordingly , but if I put up a pic of a squirell on a bird table say I wouldnt expect anyone to rate it highly at all.

And I think that was the problem. Stu has pointed out on his post (14) that there seemed to be people rating images 5 star simply in response to their friend having rated one of their images 5 stars the previous day. This was on, more often than not, common species that are not that difficult to capture. This totally skewed the rating system.

I looked this morning, before the ratings were taken off the thumbnails, and there were numerous images not worthy of 5 stars, and it was the same persons voting time and again, simply reciprocating each others marks.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Boddie

And I think that was the problem. Stu has pointed out on his post (14) that there seemed to be people rating images 5 star simply in response to their friend having rated one of their images 5 stars the previous day. This was on, more often than not, common species that are not that difficult to capture. This totally skewed the rating system.

I looked this morning, before the ratings were taken off the thumbnails, and there were numerous images not worthy of 5 stars, and it was the same persons voting time and again, simply reciprocating each others marks.

an obvious answer to that sort of quid pro quo rating would be to make the ratings anonymous , this would also enable people to be honest without fear of their freinds being upset with them. Personally I think comments on pictures should be anonymous too for the same reasons (although moderators should stuill be able to track who has written what in order to deal with flamers and the like) - I am aware that this may not be possible within the limitations of our software tho

such honest critique would probably also discourage people from uploading, fuzzy out of focus , or multiply cropped shots.

[cherrybee]

Originally Posted by eeyore

such honest critique would probably also discourage people from uploading, fuzzy out of focus , or multiply cropped shots.

Hope I am not misreading this if so I apologise.I sometimes have to crop my shots as I sometimes cannot get as close as I like so need to crop to get better detail.Not all crops are bad or am I just misunderstanding you eeyore.

[Beryl]

Yes and another good Idea would be to have only one image from a person of as particular species. If an image is superb do we need 2 or 3 almost identical? I notice in the gallery several images that are duplicated and some triplicate. This could save a great deal of space too.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Beryl

Yes and another good Idea would be to have only one image from a person of as particular species. If an image is superb do we need 2 or 3 almost identical? I notice in the gallery several images that are duplicated and some triplicate

true, unless a series of shots is necessary to show a certain behaviour....

[Hornbeam]

Does the star rating system average out the scores? If so, when someone gives his buddy 5stars for a middling photo, someone else can bring it in line by voting it 1 star. That would result in an averaged rating of 2.5

For several years I was an editor on another website which accepted photos from contributors. We experienced exactly the same problems that you are getting. Too many photos of common subjects and reluctance to reject anything. Quantity becoming more important than quality to maintain high hit rates and continuing advertising revenue. Ginormous size making culling essential but staggeringly formidable and so never done. Result is the same - the collection becomes unmaneagable and it is difficult to find anything.

IMHO - overall quality of photos on WAB is very, very high. When you look at the number of times a photo is viewed, it can be disappointing low and we all like to feel that our work is being seen. We could all do more to encourage high quality photos by commenting on those that we like and constructively criticising those that we don't. Getting no response is a big turn off. Editors really must edit and that means selecting and rejecting as well as ensuring accuracy. Failure to do that means that WAB's gallery will become little better than Photobucket where anything goes.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by eeyore

true, unless a series of shots is necessary to show a certain behaviour....

I agree but I have noticed some almost identical with just a fraction of movement , this is a waste of space

[Boddie]

Originally Posted by Hornbeam

Does the star rating system average out the scores? If so, when someone gives his buddy 5stars for a middling photo, someone else can bring it in line by voting it 1 star. That would result in an averaged rating of 2.5

For several years I was an editor on another website which accepted photos from contributors. We experienced exactly the same problems that you are getting. Too many photos of common subjects and reluctance to reject anything. Quantity becoming more important than quality to maintain high hit rates and continuing advertising revenue. Ginormous size making culling essential but staggeringly formidable and so never done. Result is the same - the collection becomes unmaneagable and it is difficult to find anything.

IMHO - overall quality of photos on WAB is very, very high. When you look at the number of times a photo is viewed, it can be disappointing low and we all like to feel that our work is being seen. We could all do more to encourage high quality photos by commenting on those that we like and constructively criticising those that we don't. Getting no response is a big turn off. Editors really must edit and that means selecting and rejecting as well as ensuring accuracy. Failure to do that means that WAB's gallery will become little better than Photobucket where anything goes.

I agree in principle but as the voting was not anonymous this could cause conflict. I think the problem stems from strategic voting of images that were just simply not up to scratch and posts to bump the count up, as Beryl rightly observes. I too would not complain if some of mine were deleted.

[matt_xyz]

Originally Posted by Beryl

I agree but I have noticed some almost identical with just a fraction of movement , this is a waste of space

I never let mutliple similar shots through now Beryl. If it happened, it happened in the past. We now have a maximum of 3 shots of the same species (in a single upload) and these must be substantively different to be allowed through. Otherwise I simply take the best one (assuming there is a best one )

Speaking of which, I've been out tonight and imagine there's now a huge queue of images waiting. Right, where's my hatchet....

Matt

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by matt_xyz

I never let mutliple similar shots through now Beryl. If it happened, it happened in the past. We now have a maximum of 3 shots of the same species (in a single upload) and these must be substantively different to be allowed through. Otherwise I simply take the best one (assuming there is a best one )

Speaking of which, I've been out tonight and imagine there's now a huge queue of images waiting. Right, where's my hatchet....

Matt

Oh that's a good thing.
No uploads from me, been out to digital lesseons. still have alot to learn.

[Barbara]

Originally Posted by Boddie

I think the problem stems from strategic voting of images that were just simply not up to scratch and posts to bump the count up, as Beryl rightly observes. I too would not complain if some of mine were deleted.

Regarding the post counts, in the past and until quite recently, if someone replied to one of my images I answered their comment, if another replied to the same image I answered their comment too and so on but this is what I chose to do out of courtesy. But, I can honestly say hand on heart that I did not do this to bump up my post count, I couldn't care less if my post count was 1 or 100. The past few days if someone kindly comments on my pics and I see that there is more than one comment I thank all the commentors in one post, with the odd exception if I feel I would like to respond to a comment seperately. That way it stops my post count from rising too quickly. I know you meant people commenting on other pics Boddie, but I just wanted to have my say.hope you don't mind

[cherrybee]

I also like to thank people for their comments and I love looking at others photos and commenting.I do have a highish post count but not because I do it to bump it up I have a lot of photos in the gallery and I do like to comment so I am not guilty of bumping my posts either