Photo Comments

John · #1 (**permalink**) 19-08-2005, 02:48 PM

Hi guys and gals

I have only recently joined this forum and I must admit that it has the makings of an excellent place to be. If I were to give one criticism it would be the lack of comments that are placed against some of the superb photos that are gradually being built in the gallery.

Quite a few members have taken time out to upload some excellent photos and I think it is fair that if you view one of them then a small comment could be placed for that photo. Even if it is something like "nice photo". At least the photographer is getting some feedback on his or her work.

Gripe over. lol

StuartDH · #2 (**permalink**) 19-08-2005, 04:03 PM

I completely agree John and I must admit that I often take a look through the gallery without taking the time to add the odd comment. The gallery has now got so many stunning pictures that it's difficult to leave a comment on the hundreds of superb images, but I'll at least get round to adding some more ratings.

When we started the gallery we certainly never expected such a high standard with an incredible variety of pictures. It has definitely become one of the most popular sections of the site and not without reason.

John · #3 (**permalink**) 19-08-2005, 04:19 PM

I have tried adding a few comments already and will continue to do so. It is not down to you to do this Stuart. All the members are benefiting by these photos and it could be their comments that encourage more photos to be uploaded. it could also encourage members to go out and get photos themselves.

Anybody that takes photos and uploads them into galleries like this tend to feed a little bit on critiscism whether good or bad and I have certainly learnt a lot with the reviews I have received on Birdforum.net from time to time.

Helen · #4 (**permalink**) 01-09-2005, 07:43 PM

I agree John.

It's always nice to get some feedback. Constructive criticism is also welcome.

John · #5 (**permalink**) 01-09-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen

I agree John.

It's always nice to get some feedback. Constructive criticism is also welcome.

I must admit to feeling as if I don't exist in some way. I look at some photos with dozens and dozens of views and yet my latest photos have between nil and about 4/5 views. I can't believe that photos like R B Shrike get's only one view and others get no one looking at all, never mind no comments.

Helen · #6 (**permalink**) 01-09-2005, 08:19 PM

Maybe Stuart can answer this question - Is the gallery very active? In that, do members spend a great deal of time in the gallery? Maybe they don't?

Tinkerbell · #7 (**permalink**) 02-09-2005, 07:54 AM

I think one reason for the lack of comment on photographs could be that a viewer may have been looking at the subject for reference purposes, rather than quality of photography. The elephant hawkmoth caterpillar photo is not necessarily a great example of skilled photography, but if you have found one of these caterpillars in your garden you will look on the site for identification. Another point to remember is that some pics have been on the gallery for over a year, whilst others are fairly recent and therefore have not attained as many viewings. I happen to think that your submissions are stunning John and wish I had your talent, but equally I enjoy all entries for the enthusiasm of the member.

Personally, I take heart from the fact that our pics may be viewed by folk from across the globe and that is sufficient for me.

wildone · #8 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 12:45 PM

Until recently have been using the rating system. Now wondering if that is the best way to show appreciation of an image. Perhaps, as guests cannot post comments, the ratings are best left to them. Members have the ablity to post. Any thoughts on this aspect?

StuartDH · #9 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 05:05 PM

Hi Wildone,

A couple of weeks ago we changed the gallery permission so that only registered members can view images at full size. This means that guests can only view thumbnails and are no longer able to rate pictures.

We made this change as it seems to be a fairly popular way of running large galleries on the Internet. Subsequently, the number of people registering each day has shot up nearly 500%.

We're just putting the finishing touches to a thin 'ticker-tape' animation that'll run along the top of the photos in the gallery to remind people to vote and leave comments, so hopefully this'll increase activitiy in these areas.

If you've got any other suggestions that we could try out, then let me know and I'll see what we can put together.

Helen · #10 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 06:14 PM

It could also go too far the other way, in that if people feel "obliged" or "pressured" to comment, it may put them off? I don't know, just a thought.

I am on a couple of photography forums and a lot of people do comment, but only if they feel the photo "merits" a comment, be that a positive or constructive critisicm comment.

Having said that, certainly not all photos are commented on, and some people do indeed just enjoy "browsing" the gallery.

I think that the more people who join this site, then the gallery will eventually take on a life of its own, and people will begin commenting etc on the pics posted.

Regards

Boddie · #11 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 08:12 PM

At the end of the day I don't leave photos for people to comment on - I simply do it for others to enjoy them. For me it is more important that people help with identification. All of the photos are good - some are 'restricted', and by that I mean that the photographer may not have the equipment to have made a fantastic shot but with explanation you can appreciate the effort they have gone to and the circumstances under which the photo was taken. I believe that everyone that has submitted photos should give themselves a pat on the back. This site has the making of an excellent reference library and each individuals efforts should be applauded. I do however believe that more comments should be made when uploading photos, if only to identify the location so that others can appreciate the geographical significance of the subject.

Boddie · #12 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 08:24 PM

I also believe that we should be doing more to promote the website to those who we meet on our travels. I have invited members of photography competitions (from AOL) to join the forum, and many have, with excellent contributions. I also designed a page for Stuart which can be printed out to give 10 business cards that I hand out to ramblers, photographers etc who I believe may wish to contribute as I was becoming increasingly annoyed with telling folk about the site but not posessing a pen and paper to write down the URL. Now I just carry some cards on plain paper. You can find the PDF file at Reference, Information, Connect or http://wildaboutbritain.co.uk/images/Colour10xCards.pdf

Pat · #13 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 08:25 PM

Well said Boddie

Boddie · #14 (**permalink**) 04-09-2005, 09:05 PM

Thanks Pat
This website has been great for me for the past few months I have been out of work. It has given me something to contribute to and to become part of a great community. I walk far more often and have a greater appreciation of my surroundings than ever before. I look at things totally differently now and its great to be able to share my sights with others.

I have to say I have just looked at Johns photos and they are fantastic but I do see his point in that many of them are not viewed - very strange as the subject is always good and the quality of the photos are excellent. My most viewed photos are of locations - that would suggest that people have found them through search engine results and may be because I include a header with the following (for example) 'One of Shropshires top attractions, Ironbridge is world renowned for being the birthplace of the industrial revolution'.

My guess is that it that the photos are being found by people looking for
Ironbridge
Shropshire
Industrial revolution

This is only a guess but I do feel that a more descriptive identification of any photo will help increase its 'appeal'.

LonesomeTwin · #15 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 12:05 AM

Could I suggest that the ratings be reduced to 3 stars: Good, Great & Stunning? Surely nobody on the forum wants to explicitly say that 'this photo is oeoeoeoe, it's not good enough for us'? After all. that's how it works at the moment, how many rated pics have less than 4 stars?
Three questions in a row is bad writing, I apologise, but I thought it needed saying.

StuartDH · #16 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 12:25 AM

Hi LonesomeTwin, thanks for your suggestion.

I think we'll probably keep the current 5 star system, because most people are used to seeing 5 stars for outstanding achievement and it's a de facto standard in almost every walk of life.

You're right, the lower ratings are almost never used, but if we changed the system to 3 stars then even the very best pictures would only have a very average-sounding rating

John · #17 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 06:09 AM

If I am being honest I have just gone through a majority of my own photos and rated them myself. The reason: basically they were being ignored. I look at my photo of the Great grey Shrike and Ruff etc and wonder how on earth nobody has been bothered to rate them. The rating system is fine if it is used but it isn't being used.

Who should be rating them anyway? If it is the members then they are not really doing it. Should it be the administration, perhaps so as the members generally don't seem interested enough. This is not meant as a harsh critiscm but a bit of a wake up call. If you want this forum and gallery to work you have to put an effort into it.

There are some stunning photos in this gallery by various members that are being ignored. Now I could make it a one man crusade to go through all of them rating them and commenting on them but I started this thread precisely to bring this problem to the forefront of members minds.

I started this thread over a month ago and to be honest I have seen no real improvement apart from the odd few comments being added.

I agree with Stuart regarding the star system. 5 star is the recognised norm and if a 3 star system were taken on board then very good photos might only attain a 3 star rating.

Any way, what good is a star rating if it isn't being used properly.

StuartDH · #18 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 09:22 AM

We should hopefully be able to put up the tickertape ads this weekend that run along the top of the pictures and ask gallery to viewers to leave a rating and possibly a few comments under each photo.

I've just looked through some of the dragonflies gallery and I think I've virtually worn out the 5 star 'outstanding' button

So many incredible photos!

Helen · #19 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 11:33 AM

I suspect I am not understanding exactly what the gallery is for here.

Maybe we could have some clarification. Are the photos used purely as a "reference" purpose? Or are they posted in the hope someone will comment on them, including constructive criticism?

If someone does suggest how to "improve" a photo, would the photographer get upset? I don't know. Personally I don't rate photos, because if I did, I would want to briefly explain my reasons for doing it. (e.g. a hard to get shot, outstanding setting, etc etc), and I'm not sure the gallery is used for that purpose?

Hell, maybe the rating system should be done away with, and more comments encouraged! That way everyone can enjoy the gallery photos without anyone getting upset if their photo is rated low! Just a thought.

John · #20 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen

I suspect I am not understanding exactly what the gallery is for here.

Maybe we could have some clarification. Are the photos used purely as a "reference" purpose? Or are they posted in the hope someone will comment on them, including constructive criticism?

If someone does suggest how to "improve" a photo, would the photographer get upset? I don't know. Personally I don't rate photos, because if I did, I would want to briefly explain my reasons for doing it. (e.g. a hard to get shot, outstanding setting, etc etc), and I'm not sure the gallery is used for that purpose?

Hell, maybe the rating system should be done away with, and more comments encouraged! That way everyone can enjoy the gallery photos without anyone getting upset if their photo is rated low! Just a thought.

If we have to have a rating system then the one we have is satisfactory but I take on board what Helen has said regarding the need for one. Other forums I am in do not have a rating system but encourage comments. There are even forums devoted to photo critique's where an individual photo can be posted within a thread and opinions and advice are sought on the rights and wrongs of that photo.

A lot of people can learn an incredible amount of information this way and their photos become even better as time goes on.

Helen has made another good point regarding the gallery. Is it for reference only or for the enjoyment of members in general. If it is the latter it appears to vastly under used looking at the actual views a lot of these photos gain.

StuartDH · #21 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen

I suspect I am not understanding exactly what the gallery is for here.

Maybe we could have some clarification. Are the photos used purely as a "reference" purpose? Or are they posted in the hope someone will comment on them, including constructive criticism?

Hi Helen,

The gallery was never really created for any single purpose, but rather to act as facility for many different uses. It provides a place for people to share their photos with the rest of the world, show the wildlife in their area, display their technical ability at taking great wildlife photos etc.

On the other hand it's also there as a reference for people to find pictures of british wildlife, help to identify something that they've spotted in their garden, or simply something to look at.

The Wild About Britain gallery is different from others on the Internet in that it doesn't just cater for any specific usergroup. Photography websites have galleries that attract technical feedback, bird galleries are usually only used by bird enthusiasts and so they attract lots of birding comments etc.

The rating system was added as a quick and easy way for viewers to add their opinion about a photo, without having to spend time writing. The comments allow them to take it a step further and leave a specific message for the photographer, such as compliments, technical queries, tips etc.

Personally, I don't post photos for comments, ratings or anything else, although I appreciate that many photographers find this particularly useful in inspiring them to take more pictures. I just like the idea that people might see something that they've never seen before and it will spark an interest in wildilfe.

I'm sure there are many people who, like me, simply don't have the time to rate images, post comments, or even get round to viewing all the pictures in the gallery. However, when I do get a quiet day, I'll be glad that the gallery is there, so that I can spend some time doing exactly the above.

Stuart

StuartDH · #22 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

If we have to have a rating system then the one we have is satisfactory but I take on board what Helen has said regarding the need for one. Other forums I am in do not have a rating system but encourage comments. There are even forums devoted to photo critique's where an individual photo can be posted within a thread and opinions and advice are sought on the rights and wrongs of that photo.

A lot of people can learn an incredible amount of information this way and their photos become even better as time goes on.

Helen has made another good point regarding the gallery. Is it for reference only or for the enjoyment of members in general. If it is the latter it appears to vastly under used looking at the actual views a lot of these photos gain.

Hi John,

To expand on some of the reply that I've just added to Helen's post, I think it is the varied audience of Wild About Britain that makes us difficult to compare to other sites.

Most of the birding, entomology, herptofauna sites etc, are visited largely enthusiasts who eat, sleep and breath that particular subject. They could happily talk about every aspect of the subject all day and love to get involved in running comments about particular photos to learn more about their passion. On the other hand, Wild About Britain tends to attract audiences that have wider interests and an overall appreciation of wildlife in general.

More than 90% of visitors arrive at the gallery to view a single photo, then they disappear again. They've usually arrived through google and I guess that they needed to just find a picture to help identify something they've found, do their school homework or something similar. I guess they're not wildlife enthusiasts, otherwise they'd stay around for a while and look at more pages on the site. However, everyday we get a small percentage of visitors that arrive at the site, see a photo that amazes them and they've suddenly found a new interest.

I've been on some specialised wildlife websites where the 'enthusiasts' can be very intimidating to other users. Comments in the galleries and forums are sometimes met with very condescending replies and elitist opinions. As a result, I can quite understand why many people are nervous about joining forums, posting comments etc - for fear of being flamed or ridiculed.

As a community, I think we can all be proud of the fact that Wild About Britain is doing a great job to buck the trend and avoid this from happening. It's a very friendly place with many helpful members and it caters for almost every type of usergroup, from new visitors looking for simple identifications to keen enthusiasts looking for a good debate.

As a result, the gallery is intended to be whatever the various usergroups want it to be. I guess the best way to make the gallery more used within the community, is to involve it in topics on the forum. If you've taken pictures during a recent outing, submit them to the gallery and post a message in the forum with links back to the photos and give details about where you went and what you did etc. This will probably attract a lot more viewers to your pictures and help spark conversation about your images.

Outside the community, we can only increase viewing figures by building the site and promoting it wherever possible. Viewing figures are currently increasing at about 50% each month so we're getting their, but if you've any ideas on how we can further promote the gallery then we're all ears.

Stuart

pxl8 · #23 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 01:17 PM

Just a thought... maybe it would be worth splitting the gallery into two sections. One for identification purposes and one that celebrates the beauty of british wildlife.

When I'm taking photos I'm more interested in creating an emotive response than a scientific record. My Spider & Dew photo is a good example of what I try to acheive.

http://www.wildaboutbritain.co.uk/ga...age.php?i=3109

Helen · #24 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 01:35 PM

Thanks very much for the clarification. To put it in a nutshell, it is up to the viewer how she/he decides to utilise the gallery.

You make some excellent points there Stuart about the site. One day, this site is going to be one mass reference site. Great stuff! Let's make it the best out there.

One more point, re promoting the gallery. How about making a more prominent feature of it on the front page - a large icon link to click on, for example?

Or, how about a "Photo of the week" with a brief explanation about the photo by the poster etc, posted onto the front page, chosen, say by Admin/the mods/ or the members? Just some more ideas I'm throwing around

StuartDH · #25 (**permalink**) 23-09-2005, 02:04 PM

pxl8 - we've actually just added a new 'unidentified' section to the gallery this morning to the make it easier for the gallery editors to find images that still need to be ID'd. Great minds and all that - your and wildone's, not mine (she suggested it, not me)

Helen - That's a great idea. I'll talk to some of the coders this weekend and see if we can integrate it into the new survey system that we're about to include on the site. This should hopefully enable members to suggest images to include in the following week's votes. We can then use it to build a hall of fame for "Photos of the Week, Month and Year"

As for the gallery, it's already in the 'quicklinks' box on the frontpage, but we could do with adding something similar to the other pages on the site. I think it shouldn;t too difficult to add a random images banner in the directory, newspaper and events pages etc.