Posting unidentified Images.

[glsammy]

Can I remind users to PLEASE post any unidentified image into the unidentified gallery. That way the image will be available to create a thread to get the correct id. This applies especially if the image is under or over-sized. By posting to any other Gallery, your risking your shots being rejected.
Today alone I've had over a dozen images posted to the wrong Gallery, with no attempt at identification.

[eeyore]

I wonder if it might be a good idea to create a really comprehensive how to with screenshots of every step then have it linked from the main page ( I notice that the how to upload images link has gone from the top of the right hand colum since the site redesign.) especially as we seem to have a lot of new members at the mo

[glsammy]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I wonder if it might be a good idea to create a really comprehensive how to with screenshots of every step then have it linked from the main page ( I notice that the how to upload images link has gone from the top of the right hand colum since the site redesign.) especially as we seem to have a lot of new members at the mo

That's a good idea Pete. I'll have a go at capturing some screen shots to try and show all the steps.
My point is that I don't want new members to be put off by having images rejected all the time. Anything to help their first experiences on the site to be a positive one is worth doing.

[Wild-Woman]

Oops.Guilty.
Will make sure I do from now on.

Jules

[Tursiops2]

For what it’s worth, I’d like to make an observation on this topic.

On a few occasions recently, it has fallen to me to be the first to welcome a newcomer to the site and explain the procedure for submitting photos to the Unidentified or Forum galleries. Like others, I’ve been puzzled as to why so many intelligent people fail to appreciate the difference between these galleries and the moderated galleries, and why a procedure that is so easy to explain should apparently be so difficult to understand.

Having given it some thought, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s simply down to presentation. If you’ll bear with me, I’ll try and explain what I mean by taking the viewpoint of a newcomer who is perhaps new to wildlife; new to computers; new to the internet; and/or new to forums*; and wants to get an ID for a bird they’ve photographed in their garden.

If, as a first-time, unregistered visitor with a photo to post, I get as far as registering and clicking on the Galleries link, I’m taken to the top of the Galleries page. Very pretty it is too, but nothing at this stage is of obvious relevance to my mission.

If I scroll down in search of more options, the first thing that catches my eye is the “Bird Photography” gallery. This would seem to be the obvious place to put a photo of a bird for identification, and there is no indication that it is not. Nor is there any indication that this gallery is for reference only; or that it is moderated (or what that means); or that photos submitted here that do not meet certain criteria will be rejected.

At this point, I think a lot of people assume they’ve reached their objective and post their image, and so would I. If, however, I do take the time to explore the options on this page further, and I scroll down to the bottom, I reach, at last, my true objectives - the “Unidentified” and “Forum” galleries.

These, however, are tucked inconspicuously away at the very bottom of the page, and there’s no obvious indication of their relevance - the Unidentified gallery has some technical stuff about copying and pasting URLs, but nothing about what it’s actually for**; and the Forum gallery specifically states that it is not for photos of wildlife (a proscription which, happily, is ignored by most contributors). Given this lack of information, even if I find these links, I think it is likely that I’m going to return to the Bird Photography gallery and post my photo there, with the inevitable consequences.

I honestly don’t think that further explanation of what is actually a fairly simple process, once you get to the point where that process is applicable, is necessary. All I think is required is a small design modification, with clear signposting to the appropriate destination.

To be specific, I think the “Unidentified” gallery should be renamed “For identification” and its purpose explained; the “Forum” gallery’s criteria should be redefined; and both links should be highlighted and repositioned at the top of the Galleries page, where the first-time visitor will see them before they get to the reference galleries. Do this and I think a lot of problems could be solved.

I really hope this helps
Tursiops2



*Every forum I’ve visited over the last two years seems to have a different system for posting photos, and even an experienced forum-user can get confused if an unfamiliar system is not clearly explained.

**I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that the original function of the “Unidentified” gallery was to serve as a sort of “holding-pen” for otherwise-acceptable Gallery images where the subject species had not been identified. If I’m right, then its role seems to have changed, and I don’t think this has helped matters.

[Gaina]

Deviant Art have to good submission process that you might want to emulate. Every step of the way you get a 'splash screen' telling you exactly what you can put in each of the categories you select to make sure you put your image in the right category.

[Paul mabbott]

That's a very neat analysis and I agree that there is some confusion remaining - for a long time I wouldn't use the Forum Gallery because it specifies, in effect, non-wildlife pictures - yet it was the only way to get undersized or below quality pictures onto the forum! I still hesitate to put pictures into the unidentified gallery when I know what they are (but am concerned that the quality of pics might make them unacceptable in one of the 'proper' galleries - seems like cheating!).

I go along with your suggestion but wonder (a) do we need two unmoderated galleries; and might it not be better (b) to have a lead-in which says (in effect), 'If you have pictures for identification or pictures not directly related to wildlife, please upload them to gallery ..... '?

There is an intrinsic logic to the present system but it clearly isn't obvious/easy for newcomers..... indeed some older users ....

Originally Posted by Tursiops2

For what it’s worth, I’d like to make an observation on this topic.

On a few occasions recently, it has fallen to me to be the first to welcome a newcomer to the site and explain the procedure for submitting photos to the Unidentified or Forum galleries. Like others, I’ve been puzzled as to why so many intelligent people fail to appreciate the difference between these galleries and the moderated galleries, and why a procedure that is so easy to explain should apparently be so difficult to understand.

Having given it some thought, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s simply down to presentation. If you’ll bear with me, I’ll try and explain what I mean by taking the viewpoint of a newcomer who is perhaps new to wildlife; new to computers; new to the internet; and/or new to forums*; and wants to get an ID for a bird they’ve photographed in their garden.

If, as a first-time, unregistered visitor with a photo to post, I get as far as registering and clicking on the Galleries link, I’m taken to the top of the Galleries page. Very pretty it is too, but nothing at this stage is of obvious relevance to my mission.

If I scroll down in search of more options, the first thing that catches my eye is the “Bird Photography” gallery. This would seem to be the obvious place to put a photo of a bird for identification, and there is no indication that it is not. Nor is there any indication that this gallery is for reference only; or that it is moderated (or what that means); or that photos submitted here that do not meet certain criteria will be rejected.

At this point, I think a lot of people assume they’ve reached their objective and post their image, and so would I. If, however, I do take the time to explore the options on this page further, and I scroll down to the bottom, I reach, at last, my true objectives - the “Unidentified” and “Forum” galleries.

These, however, are tucked inconspicuously away at the very bottom of the page, and there’s no obvious indication of their relevance - the Unidentified gallery has some technical stuff about copying and pasting URLs, but nothing about what it’s actually for**; and the Forum gallery specifically states that it is not for photos of wildlife (a proscription which, happily, is ignored by most contributors). Given this lack of information, even if I find these links, I think it is likely that I’m going to return to the Bird Photography gallery and post my photo there, with the inevitable consequences.

I honestly don’t think that further explanation of what is actually a fairly simple process, once you get to the point where that process is applicable, is necessary. All I think is required is a small design modification, with clear signposting to the appropriate destination.

To be specific, I think the “Unidentified” gallery should be renamed “For identification” and its purpose explained; the “Forum” gallery’s criteria should be redefined; and both links should be highlighted and repositioned at the top of the Galleries page, where the first-time visitor will see them before they get to the reference galleries. Do this and I think a lot of problems could be solved.

I really hope this helps
Tursiops2



*Every forum I’ve visited over the last two years seems to have a different system for posting photos, and even an experienced forum-user can get confused if an unfamiliar system is not clearly explained.

**I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) that the original function of the “Unidentified” gallery was to serve as a sort of “holding-pen” for otherwise-acceptable Gallery images where the subject species had not been identified. If I’m right, then its role seems to have changed, and I don’t think this has helped matters.

[eeyore]

T2 and paul make some good points, but i think that once we again have a clear and comprehensive "how to" thread which can be stickied and linked both from the main page and from the forum rules thread - which new members are encouraged to read first then hopefully the system will work properly without major alterations needing to be made to the way the gallery is structured.

[glsammy]

There's some good ideas here that certainly deserve looking further into.
Were currently making quite a few changes to various areas of the site, no doubt we'll have a look from the newcomer angle to see what can be done.
Both the unidentified and the Forum galleries have evolved into totally different versions from the initial idea, together with parts of the guidelines which haven't quite kept up with all the changes.

[JennyS]

Well, I'm well and truly confused on how and/or where to post images......

I've got this bit.....
'To put your image in a forum thread, view the image and copy (CTRL+C) all of the 'BB Image Code:' then paste it (CTRL+V) in your forum post.'
But what - and where do I find it - is the 'BB Image Code:'?

[Tormentil]

Originally Posted by eeyore

T2 and paul make some good points, but i think that once we again have a clear and comprehensive "how to" thread which can be stickied and linked both from the main page and from the forum rules thread -

Therein lies the problem, I think. The "instructions" are in the Forums. Surely the rules for posting pics should be at the top of the Gallery pages. There is a link named "Information", top right on the Gallery page, but that takes you nowhere.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

Therein lies the problem, I think. The "instructions" are in the Forums. Surely the rules for posting pics should be at the top of the Gallery pages. There is a link named "Information", top right on the Gallery page, but that takes you nowhere.

good point - we should defintely link them from there as well - tho i did mean to say site rules , which every member is supposed to read on joining

[Tormentil]

Originally Posted by eeyore

good point - we should defintely link them from there as well - tho i did mean to say site rules , which every member is supposed to read on joining

How many people read the instructions first ??

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

How many people read the instructions first ??

well yeah there is that , but if they dont read the instructions its hardly our fault if they cant make the upload work

[glsammy]

The bbcode box has just been changed to something more meaningful. If you want to link images in a Forum Thread, the code has been re-named "Forum Image Code:"

As for where you put your images, it's not that difficult. If you don't know the identity of anything, no matter what it is, it goes into the unidentified gallery. If you know the id, but just want to load an image to include in a thread, without it going into the main galleries, you put it into the Forum gallery. Simple. These two galleries are not limited in file size or moderated for quality.

[Tursiops2]

Originally Posted by eeyore

which new members are encouraged to read first then hopefully the system will work properly...but if they dont read the instructions its hardly our fault if they cant make the upload work

Quelle horreur! Quelle attitude!
Ultimately this is an exercise in marketing, and there isn't a major business corporation in the world that succeeded by taking that attitude to its customers. Every customer is valuable, even the thick ones!

Originally Posted by eeyore

without major alterations needing to be made to the way the gallery is structured.

Am I really suggesting such a major alteration? I don't know much about the architecture of websites, but the repositioning of two elements and rewriting their blurb can't be that big a deal, can it?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Tursiops2

Am I really suggesting such a major alteration? I don't know much about the architecture of websites, but the repositioning of two elements and rewriting their blurb can't be that big a deal, can it?

I dont know that much about website architecture either which is why i leave such decisions up to those that do - such as stu who designed the site as it is in the first place , imo what graham has said above is perfectly clear and once the how to is written that will hopefully be the end of the matter.

[StuartDH]

I'm working on some video tutorials for other parts of the site and have put something together for image uploads too.

I should hopefully have something sorted in the next day or so

[JennyS]

Originally Posted by glsammy

The bbcode box has just been changed to something more meaningful. If you want to link images in a Forum Thread, the code has been re-named "Forum Image Code:"

As for where you put your images, it's not that difficult. If you don't know the identity of anything, no matter what it is, it goes into the unidentified gallery. If you know the id, but just want to load an image to include in a thread, without it going into the main galleries, you put it into the Forum gallery. Simple. These two galleries are not limited in file size or moderated for quality.

OK folks I'm not used to forum posting, and I'm obviously one of your thicker users.....thank you glsammy, I've now put images into the 'unidentified' gallery' but can find no sign of them there to get the "Forum Image Code:".......
Sorry if I'm starting to sound a bit uptight.....

[Tursiops2]

"I'm working on some video tutorials for other parts of the site and have put something together for image uploads too.

I should hopefully have something sorted in the next day or so" - StuartDH



That should be interesting, I'll look forward to it.
T2

[Tursiops2]

Originally Posted by JennyS

I'm obviously one of your thicker users.....Sorry if I'm starting to sound a bit uptight.....

(wince)poor choice of word on my part perhaps, heat of the moment and all that, no insult intended JennyS

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Tursiops2

(wince)poor choice of word on my part perhaps, heat of the moment and all that, no insult intended JennyS

talk about quelle horreur , quelle attitude !