Reed Mace problem

[Janec]

Hello,
We moved to our present house about 3 years ago. The previous owner had made a large deep clay lined pond which has lost water continuously. The previous owner had a system of electric pumps down a well (and extension leads all down the garden), to keep it topped up. We promptly unplugged the trail of extension leads when we moved in as we didn't feel it was that safe. As we're on a water meter and 1000 gallons doesn't touch it we haven't been able to keep the pond full. He also left some iris plants in a bucket and we thought it might be nice to put them in the pond unfortunately not all the plants were iris. We now have a muddy hole in the garden full of reed mace. (Sorry this is so long winded).
To finally get to the point:
If we cut down the reed mace to root level and cover over with a pond liner, will the reed mace give up or will it penetrate the liner?
We don't feel up to digging it out (having attempted to remove a small piece and then having to have a lie down).
Also, the pond has been without water for months (just damp mud on bottom) but will there still be frogs & toads and other life hibernating in this. We'd hate to cover anyone up.
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks
Jane

[King Edward]

Hi Jane,

Could you post some photos of the pond?

[solus]

In my opinion there is a good chance of all sorts hibernating in the mud, if it's deep enough and wet enough to cover them! I know nothing about reedmace but I would be very worried about it re-growing (and quite possibly damaging a pond liner) if it isn't either completely removed or killed very dead!

I take it you are thinking of using the existing hole but with a butyl liner and thus keeping the pond? If that's the case and if it was me, I would probably make it a project for the spring and clear out all the muck and debris (the mud'll be great as a rich mulch on your borders) and then start with a clean slate, as it were, and lay a thick layer of sand over the original clay base as an underlay for the rubber liner. It may be hard work but may well save you from expensive problems later on.

Do you have any small but strong boys in the family who wouldn't mind digging out the mud for you?

[Janec]

Hi

King Edward,
yes, I'll take a photo tomorrow morning and post it on here.
I'll be a bit embarrassed though, excuse the mess etc. etc.

solus,
yes, we would like to use the existing hole as it's in the best place.
Unfortunately we don't have any strong boys, or girls, who would do this for us. It's down to us with our gammy leg and iffy hips. (we're only in our early 50's but I think we must have worn out our bodies during our mis-spent youths )
The roots of the reed mace seem to go down to infinity and be made of steel. I think it would be a job for a mini-digger but I really haven't got anywhere to dump this much muck and I'm worried now what this would do to anybody in the mud. I was hoping that by letting the pond dry out the creatures would move elsewhere.
I can see my husband sifting through the mud with a teaspoon as he insists in checking every bit of bonfire rubbish for any tiny insect. This could take a while

I think we may have to re-think unless anyone can suggest an enviromentally friendly way of killing the reedmace and removing any inhabitants.

Thanks and any alternative suggestions welcome
Jane

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by Janec

..........If we cut down the reed mace to root level and cover over with a pond liner, will the reed mace give up or will it penetrate the liner?.......Jane

According to the RHS's guidance on pond construction/maintenance - Yes, reed mace will puncture pond liner (and is far too invasive for garden ponds). I'm afraid the only effective solution will probably be to dig it out

Jeff
(Schedule 1 Licence holder for Kingfishers, Barn Owls and Avocets)

[King Edward]

Reedmace (Typha, aka Bulrush) is very tough, with sharp rhizomes which will very likely just come straight through the liner. So, I agree that you'll either have to get rid of it first or put the new pond elsewhere. It's the rhizomes you really need to remove, rather than the actual roots which I doubt will regrow if left. Unfortunately, unless you physically remove the lot with a digger then I think it could be a long drawn out process of removal, to make sure you get every last bit out.

For liner protection, Polyfelt underlay is much better than sand. See here. EPDM rubber (from the same place) is similar to Butyl but cheaper, and should be just as good if not better. Try phoning FLP in my link and asking how effective a single/double Polyfelt layer would be against the Reedmace.

Finally, how big & deep is the pond? Many ponds are rather excessively deep, so if you're redoing the whole thing you may want to consider a redesign. See Factsheet 4 Pond Design here.

[Billabong Karen]

Hi Janec, looking forward to seeing your photos, as this will give a clearer view. In the meantime, have you thought of just leaving the bullrushes where they are, and having this as a marhsy kind of area, with a pond in another spot? Of course, I dont know how much space you have, but a marshy area would be very useful to all kinds of amphibians - almost of more use than an actual pond. Karen

[Janec]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
I think we've decided to go with your suggestions and re-site the pond near to what is now the marsh area.
The pond is 15 to 20 feet accross and probably 5 foot deep in the middle which is frankly much bigger than we need. We just want a wildlife pond not a water garden!
The previous owner kept fish, which he promised to take with him and didn't however although we fed them and bought them an oxygen bubbler etc. we weren't keen and a local heron sadly (for the fish), had them for breakfast.
Looking back at the old photos we had forgotten about the huge lily that came with the pond which would also have to be removed.

Pond before the reed mace:






Our new reed bed/marsh area



Thanks very much everyone for your helpful advice and suggestions.

We'd better start digging a new hole!

[Billabong Karen]

I actually think the reed bed / marshy area looks very cool!! And I bet the birds and amphibians will LOVE it.

Very nice looking garden, by the way...

[King Edward]

Interesting to see the photos - I see what you mean about the Reedmace taking over. It would be quite a job to clear all that, so resiting the pond does sound like the best idea. You actually have a lot of potential there, given the large amount of essentially empty space.

If you were really ambitious, you could think about creating multiple ponds rather than just one, of different sizes. Of course, you wouldn't have to do them all at once (could be over several years), but it is something to consider. Helps to spread the cost a bit, too, and with sloping ground it might be easier to put in a few smaller ponds rather than one large one.

Have a read through the various information on the Pond Conservation link I posted earlier - there's a lot of good stuff on there. Their Pond Book is very useful as well - not so much on the practicalities of laying pond liner etc., but on design considerations for wildlife benefit.

Most importantly - don't dig too deep. 12"-15" max is plenty, with large areas considerably less (mm to inches deep, not feet).