Fresh Water Mussels- What's eating them?

[Cakey]

so once again we really cant prove who or what do things like this so I hope the fishermen and fishery owners get of the poor otters backs
trust me in the fishing world otters and canoes are well hated

[Fly by night]

Hi All
Well... I and my colleagues are fisherman and would be delighted if indeed it were otters eating the mussels, and I suspect it is. Please don't judge all fishermen the same. Some of us are very old countrymen with an awful lot of knowledge who respect and co-exist with many native creatures, even modern specimen hunters...

[aquarian31]

I do despair of those who utter remarks like cakey who stated - " so once again we really cant prove who or what do things like this so I hope the fishermen and fishery owners get of the poor otters backs
trust me in the fishing world otters and canoes are well hated "
can you /she state the evidence to substantiate this allegation.
Otters are in fact becoming the highest level predator on all lakes rivers and even ornamental pools causing hundreds of thousands of pounds of damage countrywide
One woman in Shropshire very recently lost an entire Ornamental pool of very expensive Koi carp to such predation.
A fish farmer in Hampshire was put out of business because all his fish brood stock was either eaten, partially or mutilated and the otters had been re introduced to the area without consultation as in many parts of the country.
Such a lack of consultation by Natural England, the Environment Agency and the wildlife trusts behind such projects have in fact put an apex predator at large and now seen to be killing off large numbers of fish and rivers especially in Norfolk being decimated...the EA admits to this but also states it cannot put the genie back in the bottle..the damage is done irretrievably.
I'm not against otters but i do believe in the fullest application of " The Precautionary Principle" being applied and in no instance can this be evidenced or seen to have been done by way or consultation as is required by law..... who are the guilty parties ? the Wildlife and otter trusts !
They have by stealth wreaked havoc and in the course of this, there are many who have no real knowledge of the countryside being seen to jump on a bandwagon of blaming the angling community, who in truth have done a huige job of protecting england wales waterways in schemes and committees in ways not even contemplated by those that just enjoy a sunday walk in the country.
I'd ask that where allegations are made...show the proof or in other words " Put up or shut up!!"

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by aquarian31

Otters are in fact becoming the highest level predator on all lakes rivers and even ornamental pools causing hundreds of thousands of pounds of damage countrywide
One woman in Shropshire very recently lost an entire Ornamental pool of very expensive Koi carp to such predation.
A fish farmer in Hampshire was put out of business because all his fish brood stock was either eaten, partially or mutilated and the otters had been re introduced to the area without consultation as in many parts of the country.

Surely people with so much to lose would at least provide basic protection to their stock. Otter fencing would have prevented both of these occurances and is very successful if erected correctly.

Originally Posted by aquarian31

Such a lack of consultation by Natural England, the Environment Agency and the wildlife trusts behind such projects have in fact put an apex predator at large and now seen to be killing off large numbers of fish and rivers especially in Norfolk being decimated...the EA admits to this but also states it cannot put the genie back in the bottle..the damage is done irretrievably.
I'm not against otters but i do believe in the fullest application of " The Precautionary Principle" being applied and in no instance can this be evidenced or seen to have been done by way or consultation as is required by law..... who are the guilty parties ? the Wildlife and otter trusts !
They have by stealth wreaked havoc and in the course of this, there are many who have no real knowledge of the countryside being seen to jump on a bandwagon of blaming the angling community, who in truth have done a huge job of protecting england wales waterways in schemes and committees in ways not even contemplated by those that just enjoy a sunday walk in the country.

Otters are naturally recolonising many areas in far more significant numbers than release schemes. Many release schemes no longer operate (the east anglian ones finished in 1999), especially with government cuts I can hardly see NE and the EA spending thousands of pounds on this. The ones in East Anglia did not release huge numbers and this was a method for enhancing genetic diversity in existing fragmented populations. Otters tend not to have huge impacts in natural environments like rivers, it is highly stocked areas such as fish farms and commercial fisheries which are at particular risk (both can be easily be managed to keep otters out). They also tend to be in quite low densities due to their territorial nature. Otters tend to influence different fisheries in different ways although there is no evidence that they are causing hugely adverse affects on fish stocks.

I can see otters are not particularly popular with anglers, however they are a natural part of our fauna and I see no reason why they should not be encouraged back. In some cases they will actually help revert watersheds into a more natural system, by balancing fish stocks, which will in turn benefit other wildlife. There are far more serious issues to fish stocks than otters (i.e. declines in eels, salmon etc).

I do not agree with Cakeys comments though and cant see the relevance of fishing and freshwater mussels.

[Cakey]

Im just of the opinion that the otter was probably around before any angler and is entitled to live its life
I belong to two massive angling sites which both believe that otters should be culled to improve their fishing
so if it upsets you that Im on the side of the otter or any other wild animal that anglers want culled with no proof then so be it

[AndyC]

As a lifelong angler and lover of all wildlife (and even a tolerator of canoeists!) I despair at the them and us mentality. Most anglers I know, in fact nearly all that I know, are only too pleased to see otters. I know that there are angling bodies that do complain about otters and fish eating birds but they don't represent us all by a long way.

Originally Posted by aquarian31

A fish farmer in Hampshire was put out of business because all his fish brood stock was either eaten, partially or mutilated and the otters had been re introduced to the area without consultation as in many parts of the country.

Good. Fish farms are an unmitigated environmental disaster. They suck water out of rivers leaving stretches with reduced flows, often causing problems for fish migration (over weirs), and then return the water in a polluted state further downstream. The fish in fish farms are fed on fish meal which if left in the sea would have gone to feed wild fish and birds. You wont find many anglers who can think who have any time for fish farms either in rivers or in the sea.


Andy

[Earthwatcher]

Well said Andy. It seems to me there are two kind of posters on this forum: those, the majority, who have some interesting observation or point to make about wildlife, and those who have an axe to grind or a campaigning approach.

I love otters, enjoy canoeing and I love fishing (and when I'm fishing I wave to canoeists when I see them and watch otters when I see them). I've also taken a deep interest in freshwater mussels. I know what eats what and don't need someone posting on here, exploiting what is an otherwise interesting thread to make ill-informed comments on conservation, predation etc. I come here to learn things, not to read opinionated nonsense.

[Fly by night]

As the starter of this thread...
I think the most amusing and ill informed comment was" could it be anglers themselves gathering these mussels"
Obviously this person has never tried to 'Gather' swan mussels. had he done so he would have realised that it would take approx 12 months to accumulate the pile I initially described at the start of this thread, and there were several.
Crows out of 6-7 feet of water? Adaptable these birds are I know but please.
I thank everyone who has taken the time to comment on my original topic, though sadly I do not feel much further forward though the journey has been well entertaining.

[diggleken]

Originally Posted by Fly by night

As the starter of this thread...
I think the most amusing and ill informed comment was" could it be anglers themselves gathering these mussels"
Obviously this person has never tried to 'Gather' swan mussels. had he done so he would have realised that it would take approx 12 months to accumulate the pile I initially described at the start of this thread, and there were several.
Crows out of 6-7 feet of water? Adaptable these birds are I know but please.
I thank everyone who has taken the time to comment on my original topic, though sadly I do not feel much further forward though the journey has been well entertaining.

Hi all,
just had a further read of the posts - what seems to have been missed is that this is what happens when an angler rakes an overgrown weedy swim out to fish, you can often find mussels, whether swan, pea or duck mussels, depending on the muddiness or sandiness of the bottom, just left on the bank.
It happens - and especially on weedy ponds.
Then something can easily eat them, whatever that may be.
I mentioned Crows previously only in the context of snails at waters edge by the way!
Cheers
Ken

[Dogghound]

Crows, gulls etc can also eat them in waterbodies which fluctuate in depth through the season. As can foxes, badgers when they can get to them, they are rich in protein and fairly easy to get at. Otters and mink can get at them in the water. Humans can dredge them up during channel/waterbody management, people can rake them up as Ken suggests. Threads like this are really impossible to answer without being there, knowing the site and seeing the actual shells/animals, and or looking for other signs. The details are just too limited and the options too great.