Golden Orfe sickness

[jpuncher]

Hi can you help
I have a 7500 gal garden pond with 2 large Orfe about 20 years old and 12 large Koi. Recently I came home and the female Orfe was floating at top of pond, thinking it was dead I moved it to lift out of water and it slowly started swimming down and around bottom of pool. this has happened 3 time in last two days but there is no sign externally of any problem or damage.

I live in SE England where water temp has dropped to about 8 - 10 deg all the other fish are coping ok and just staying near bottom of pond.

Has anyone experienced anything like this?
I hope you can help, thank you

[valleyforge]

HI there, and welcome to the WaB forum.

Fish control their buoyancy in the water through an internal organ known as the swim bladder.

When fish are found floating on their sides at the surface, it can certainly be indicative of disease ... however, a common problem that occurs can be related to feeding dry food (flake or pellet) to the fish.

If eaten too quickly the dry food swells in the intestine of the fish, causing distension and interfering with the proper function of the swim bladder.

If you happen to be feeding dry food, try pre-wetting it before introducing it to your pond, and then observe if this makes any difference.

[Dogghound]

I would personally avoid feeding fish in winter all together.

[tom00_uk]

they require high levels of O2 and a frozen over pond will not provide this

there are not going to be many if any medicines that will work at this time of year due to the low water temperature, so best to just see how it goes and keep not feeding until the water temperature starts to rise again

[bran goesgoch]

Do you keep a pump running all year round for aeration purposes? Golden Orfe are usually the first to suffer if the oxygen levels in the water drop to low. This usually appears to be more common a problem though during the summer months. It could be worth a try.

[Naturenutz]

Also in very cold weather fish can suffer from chilling of the swim bladder,i have saved a fish before by bringing it in doors and let the water warm up slowly over time.After 2 days the fish recovered but the water temp was below 6 when the problem occured.it does sound swimbladder related though.

[bran goesgoch]

Originally Posted by Naturenutz

Also in very cold weather fish can suffer from chilling of the swim bladder,i have saved a fish before by bringing it in doors and let the water warm up slowly over time.After 2 days the fish recovered but the water temp was below 6 when the problem occured.

Interesting......so if the water temperature is the problem, then it sounds to me like the pond itself isn't deep enough. Fish tend to head for the deepest part of the pond during the winter months and I've always been lead to believe that a depth of at least 1.5meters is required for the fish to survive.

[Naturenutz]

I think the problem is worse if you keep the pump running,i kept my water flowing to prevent ice covering the pond surface,but the drawback was that the water was more chilled with the disturbance of the water falling onto the surface.The other reason i kept it running is that the good filter bacteria will die off completely without the flow through the filter. I cannot believe how hardy fish are,ive not lost 1 fish too the cold and thats with the pump running but my pond is very deep and i observe them regularly and treat any problems quickly.I think it is a good idea to bowl a fish up and bring it indoors if it appears to be suffering badly in cold weather.You have to let the water warm up on its own accord,avoiding sharp changes in temp.The trouble with orfe is they are probably the most difficult fish to keep calm and to treat and they get stressed very easily and are quite fragile to water quality changes.
very rarely can you rely exactly on somebody else's experience,due to every pond being different in set up,eg fish,no fish,plants,no plants,pump,no pump ,filter or no filter,depth,size and so on and on.all of these make are pond set ups very individual which makes pond advice very difficult but i agree depth is important for fish ponds.Wildlife ponds are a different matter as many dont have fish.

[bran goesgoch]

When you suggest that all ponds are different, I do tend to agree with you. I also agree when you say what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Personally, I never turn off my pump, three reasons, 1) as you say it would affect the bio filter. 2) I like to keep the water aerated all year round and 3) keeping a clear surface area provides a bath and drinking water for the many garden birds that continue to visit during the winter months.

I was pleased to hear that your Golden Orfe had made a full recovery and if the local cats hadn't killed all of mine , I might have been tempted to do as you have done under the same circumstances. Good luck with the rest of your fish .