Plans To Charge For Household Rubbish

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by lewisa

For a processor to landfill an entire batch of recyclable waste becuase of a 1 in 10,000 contamination is morally wrong on another level.

Because someone else made a mistake, the processors take the 'not my fault' cop out. Instead they should develop systems to cope with the automation of these issues rather than make excuses while pointing the finger at well meaning public.

Currently the public and councils take repsonsibility and the processors take the easiest ride possible to turn a profit for their business. Anything gets in the way of that and they dont care about landfilling tonnes and tonnes with impunity. I find it sickening.

On an exchange trip to North Carolina with Rotary International in 2006 I was taken to a recycling plant where all the recyclable stuff collected from households was dumped onto a large conveyor belt. On either side of the belt were dozens of illegeal immigrant types mainly hispanics who processed the material into piles sof their various components by hand.

Not sure how its done here but the American way does kill two birds with one stone.

cheers,

Adam

[Garden Carpet]

Originally Posted by Kymba

I have a personal example how these charge plans are going to cost the council so much more money because of the extra Fly tipping that will occur.
We have an Alley at the top of the garden that runs the length of the houses...( Council owned) .... We havent been able to use since we moved in over a year ago because of all stuff that has been dumped there ( Furniture, wood, Bags of rubbish etc ) It is even knocking down our fencing because of the amount there, we cant replace this until all the rubbish has been removed!! I have had council out to look at it and photograph it ( last June) and said they will remove it.. But it is going to cost £16000 because of amount there.... After me and several neighbours phoning regularly still nothing has been done,, But more stuff is being dumped all the time so obviously the cost is rising!!

Also as i cant replace my fencing if my two Alsatians manage to get up to the top of garden they will be able to get out.... What if they do and Bite someone or cause an accident.. Who is to Blame?? I have told this to Coucil everytime i phone them.... It hasnt made them get their finger out at all!!

But it is the cost that is the problem for them (so they say)

Take a few pictures yourself and send them with details to the local paper and radio station... mention the rats... of course there are rats.. rats can cause you and your dogs health problems. Dont wait for them to react.. do it for them. It will cost them a great deal more if you or one of your neighbours decided to sue them on health grounds
jaki

[Duke of York]

Originally Posted by lewisa

This highlights one of the failings of the council tax system. Its a property tax, not a people tax. Yet many of the services it pays for are effected by the number of people in a household, rather than just the value of the property.

If I remember rightly there was a system where local taxes where based on the number of people in a household not the value of the property.... It was called the poll tax and if I remember correctly it was a tad unpopular

[ron1863]

I agree with your conclusion that it will lead to fly tipping. In my district they increased the council tax then introduced fortnightly rubbish pick ups, bins are now over-flowing. They now charge £25 for a special uplift, where before it was free. Councils seem to be encouraging people to fly-tip.

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Duke of York

If I remember rightly there was a system where local taxes where based on the number of people in a household not the value of the property.... It was called the poll tax and if I remember correctly it was a tad unpopular

Ah yes, I should have added that im not advocating the return to poll tax.

If I was in charge there would be a property tax based on value, and things such as police and refuse, which all adults should pay for equally, would be dealt with seperately.

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Originally Posted by Kymba

Just a thought But wont the Black Bin bags we are asked to put our household waste stay in the ground Forever ??????
So thats One thing that needs looking at.. how many of them are put into landfill sites every day!!!!!!!!!

I've never thought of that. Creating rubbish for rubbish. What are we doing

[Kymba]

I remember the days before Poll Tax when we were charge RATES.. If my memory serves me right it was done on the value of your House......Think people believed that was the best way of doing it......

As for Black bags any suggestion for what could be used instead that will rot away ???

[Duke of York]

Just a thought, but instead of punishing those who throw out the most rubbish why don't they reward those households that do the most recycling by reducing their council tax.

Should encourage a few more people to go green...

If you purely charge on the amount of waste thrown out people will find ways to avoid it

[Kymba]

Just read yesterdays newspaper and was totally shocked and disgusted with Article....
"Green Tescos Sent me 75 ITEMS in 48 BAGS!!!!!!
A woman used the Tescos online shopping and ordered 75 things when they were delivered they were in 48 different bags!!!!! and was delivered in 5 crates.. Among items in one bag each were.. single bar of soap,A cucumber,Tin of soup,Tin of Spaghetti Rings, A Scouring Pad, Frozen Chips, Fish fingers, Floor Wipes, and a pack of face Wipes... 3 packets of Biscuits were in another...
Tescos said it was Excessive and will look into it....
The Article finishes by saying " The farce comes as the public is bombarded with tonnes of needless packaging by Manufacturers.. while councils put spy-chips in wheeelie bins to nick householders who break recycling rules..

Some producers fly fruit to other countries - therefore increasing air pollution - just to be Vacuum packed. This is then flown back to uk for sale!!!!!!!!

Also Sky news have been monitoring the UK's CO2 Emissions for this week and up to 9.37 this morning it stood at 9285612 tonnes!!

[Dennis1234567]

Why not tax the end product maker? The more chuckaway stuff the higher the tax, they would soon jump once their sales drop. I'm old enough to remember when everything was supplied in a paper bag, so why not again?

My local council collects garden waste in biodegradable plastic bags, they last about a month once you start filling them. These things are in use, they have been tested and they work.

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Originally Posted by Dennis1234567

Why not tax the end product maker? The more chuckaway stuff the higher the tax, they would soon jump once their sales drop. I'm old enough to remember when everything was supplied in a paper bag, so why not again?

I agree with dennis 1 to 7, however I think as long as people such as Lord Sainsbury are funding the political parties, and I'm sure Lord Tesco, Lord Waitrose and Lady Asda are doing the same, it's unlikly that the goverment will tell the supermarkets they are going to be taxed more. Even if they did, it would be us the consumer who would have to pay at the till. But we have the choice where to buy.

[peppermint]

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

On an exchange trip to North Carolina with Rotary International in 2006 I was taken to a recycling plant where all the recyclable stuff collected from households was dumped onto a large conveyor belt. On either side of the belt were dozens of illegeal immigrant types mainly hispanics who processed the material into piles sof their various components by hand.

Not sure how its done here but the American way does kill two birds with one stone.

cheers,

Adam

I am pretty sure they do the sorting of recyclables on a conveyer type system here too. I saw a program, think it may have been panorama on recycling in the UK. It was shocking as it revealed that some recycling companies roughly sort the recyclables, then ship them off to places such as China or poor African countries, who then just landfill it all. for a price of course.
Also, in Canada, where i am currently, they have places in the shops to deposit your used carrier bags for recycling (they probably do in UK also but i cant quite remember). Instead of reusing them locally, they all get shipped off to China for sorting! What is the point in this?? Sending them half way across the world, releasing so much co2 into the atmosphere in the process. I am totally for recycling but some of the methods and companies involved are very questionable.
One thing to do (as 1 man i read about in the ecologist magazine does) is to leave all the packaging of your food/bought goods in the shops that sell them and let them deal with it. If lots of people did this, then the shops would be complaining to the manufacturers and the manufacturers would have to do something about it.

[henrya]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

What's 'non-recyclable' about ash? I'd put it in the compost heap or spread it on the plots to deter slugs ....

This is ash from a 'coal' fire, not wood ash. Maybe I should have said cinders, but to my mind cinders are coarser than ash. And what have you got against slugs?

henrya

[nightshade]

My Grandfather used to dig in soot and ash to break up heavy clay

[henrya]

Originally Posted by nightshade

My Grandfather used to dig in soot and ash to break up heavy clay

The sort of ash I get doesn't do that job (I've tried).

henrya

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by henrya

This is ash from a 'coal' fire, not wood ash. Maybe I should have said cinders, but to my mind cinders are coarser than ash. And what have you got against slugs?
henrya

Nothing personal against slugs - just don't want them near my seedlings! I throw most of the slugs/snails I find on to the compost heap *but* I'm not going to sit up all night waiting for them to attack the lettuce!
Whatever the ash is, (I appreciate that there will be some unpleasant organic residues in coal ash), I would still put it into the compost. I don't know but assume that smokeless fuel doesn't leave the toxic waste that raw coal does?

[henrya]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Nothing personal against slugs - just don't want them near my seedlings! I throw most of the slugs/snails I find on to the compost heap *but* I'm not going to sit up all night waiting for them to attack the lettuce!
Whatever the ash is, (I appreciate that there will be some unpleasant organic residues in coal ash), I would still put it into the compost. I don't know but assume that smokeless fuel doesn't leave the toxic waste that raw coal does?

One problem is that my ash heap is much bigger than my compost heap, also my current compost bin is plastic. I think I know what would happen to it if I chucked hot ashes into it. But if I didn't put out the ashes for the binmen, then I'd not have anything to put out most weeks, and they'd stop coming (this has happened in the past), and when I did accumulate enough waste to need collecting, what would I do with it?

I think I'll still put the ash out for the binmen. Sorry.

henrya

[Dennis1234567]

I have a postage stamp sized garden, and a compost bin that i throw most of my garden organic stuff. I also throw in foodstuff from the kitchen. I read so much about what i can throw in it and found it just doesn't compost.

What does go in it? I know the obvious, but what else goes in?

As far as slugs go, i'm their worst nightmare. I nuke everyone i find. I live in the ultimate slug free zone.

[Paul mabbott]

Sounds bizarre! Ah well, best luck

Originally Posted by henrya

.......... But if I didn't put out the ashes for the binmen, then I'd not have anything to put out most weeks, and they'd stop coming (this has happened in the past), and when I did accumulate enough waste to need collecting, what would I do with it?
I think I'll still put the ash out for the binmen. Sorry.
henrya

[nightshade]

Originally Posted by Dennis1234567

I have a postage stamp sized garden, and a compost bin that i throw most of my garden organic stuff. I also throw in foodstuff from the kitchen. I read so much about what i can throw in it and found it just doesn't compost.

What does go in it? I know the obvious, but what else goes in?

As far as slugs go, i'm their worst nightmare. I nuke everyone i find. I live in the ultimate slug free zone.

You should not put food scraps in it will attract vermin,woody plants do not compost readily,cardboard and paper need to be shredded and mixed in,leave out citrus fruit skins

[fbcpmike]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

but the plastic covering can be used as sandwich bags and then put in with the plastic recycling!

Yes - but, our local council won't take it, it's not a plastic bottle marked 2 or 5.

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

people seem to forget is that councils have very little control over this.

Not so here, we keep being told it is the council who set the recycling contracts, or are we being told porkies

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

(I wonder how many of the whingers on this forum actually pass their views on to their concillors, MPs, MEPs?) - please - but don't expect anything to change without a fundamental shift away from the privatisation of public services.

I do, and if whinging gets it done so be it. I have no problems with publishing their contact details either (example) its in the public domain (buried usually), I'm just repeating it publicly, they are public servants, make them serve. Join your local citizens panel, most councils have them for feedback, use it, we do. Don't complain if you can't be bothered.

We have been told the bi-weekly recycling collection scheme is a "trial" for six months, lies. Once we did some research we found that our council and the next door council are negotiating to combine their recyling collections bi-weekly, just as our "trial" ends. Our collections are rubbish weekly and recycling bi weekly, six collections a month. The new system will see rubbish and recyling on alternate weeks, four collections a month, it's a cost cutting exercise. The amount of rubbish does not change, its just collected differently !.

Fines for land fill usage for a council is revenue extension, but they won't increase recycling take up as they claim it is not cost effective, but they peanalise us ! for their lazyness.

Ultimately the pressure has to come from the top but we have to pressure the top to get them to work for us, after all thats what they are there for - us. Joe public is basically lazy, just look at the voting turn outs, maybe recycling fines might just get the joe's off their rears and do something.

Ban all non recyclable plastic packaging.
Make all carrier bags chargeable and reusable, you have to buy bags on the continent.
Bring back the old "refund" system on bottles, and make the vendors responsible for the system. If kids see a way of making money just see the rubbish dissappear off the streets.
Ban chewing gum totally.
Refuse unwarranted packaging at the supermarkets, since when do bananas, apples and the like need plastic trays and vacuum sealing.

Draconian isn't it, or are you content to pay for lazy Joe?.

Whew that turned into a bit of a rant, sorry. For those here i'm sure i'm preaching to the converted, bit I do feel better.

[Dennis1234567]

I'm a whinger, and proud of it. It's whingers that get things done.