Plans To Charge For Household Rubbish

[smartie]

Originally Posted by jennyb

I am always embarrassed by the number of wine bottles in ours and have actually thought of distributing them along the street BTW, red wine is apparently good for you. Jenny (hic!)

Believe it or not I caught my next door neighbour doing just that a few months ago. She's still living it down

[Kymba]

Just want to thank you all for your responce to this thread.. It has been great getting peoples Views.. Keep them comming!

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Hey Kymba,
It's an important topic although we ended up talking about check-out staff, somehow. The principle of paying for rubbish has been on the cards for a while, most wheelie bins have a pre-moulded slot for a weighing type chip thingy. The only way to get people to recycle is via education and to stop people being lazy and just popping the pedal bin rather than sorting the waste.
I'm in the RAF and our station, at last, has started a huge campaign to recycle as much as we can. We now have large skips dotted about the place. Unfortunately one contaminated item in a skip means the whole lot goes to land fill. Again it's down to education.
I still think the government should do more.

[Wild-Woman]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

Hey Kymba,
It's an important topic although we ended up talking about check-out staff, somehow. The principle of paying for rubbish has been on the cards for a while, most wheelie bins have a pre-moulded slot for a weighing type chip thingy. The only way to get people to recycle is via education and to stop people being lazy and just popping the pedal bin rather than sorting the waste.
I'm in the RAF and our station, at last, has started a huge campaign to recycle as much as we can. We now have large skips dotted about the place. Unfortunately one contaminated item in a skip means the whole lot goes to land fill. Again it's down to education.
I still think the government should do more.

At Christmas I was given a box of chocs from a child in my class.

It had:-
a cellophane wrapper
a cardboard box
2 layer dividers(plastic material)
2 plastic layer trays(the shape of the chocs)
Each choc was wrapped in shiny cellophane

Why?

They were wrapped in wrapping paper and carried in, in a plastic bag.

This was a well known 'species' of sweets- that I won't be buying again, until I can go into a sweet shop and have them scooped into a biodegradeable paper(recycled paper) bag.(Like the good old days!)

I have written to them by the way!

Jules

[Paul mabbott]

I agree to an extent on the first point - but the plastic covering can be used as sandwich bags and then put in with the plastic recycling! Probably better, as you say, to use paper envelopes.

On your second point, yes, I agree absolutely but what people seem to forget is that councils have very little control over this. Back in the 80s councils were forced to hive out waste collection (amongst many other things) to the cheapest bidder. The Government can say this, that or the other is 'bad', councils can agree but they can do little about it. As with the school food campagn: Jamie Oliver says, 'We're feeding our children oooo!'; the government agrees and tells councils to do better; councils tell schools to do better, schools tell the contract caterers to do better. They say, 'Sorry, you signed this contract for five years ... up yours!'.
Same with waste collection/recycling. The government could do something .. derogate all the contracts and start afresh but, can you see that happening?
Yes, reply to consultations, make your views known to your representatives (I wonder how many of the whingers on this forum actually pass their views on to their concillors, MPs, MEPs?) - please - but don't expect anything to change without a fundamental shift away from the privatisation of public services.

Originally Posted by fbcpmike

BBc Wildlife magazine used to come in paper packaging, it now comes in a plastic wrapper - backwards move, and similar for other magazines.
There also should be some standadisation for what councils will take for recylcing, ours will not take plastic cartons & yoghourt pots (the contract is not "cost effective"), others will, there is so much more in our rubbish that could be recyled that our council will not take.
It needs pressure / legislation from central government but that won't happen without more of us pressurising them.

[colinaj]

I use cardboard and paper in my bean trenches, cans and jars for bits and bobs in my workshop. Scrap food for the birdtable. Plastic bottles as cloches and the rest is buried in a pit hole on my 4 acres of land.
Col.

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

Unfortunately one contaminated item in a skip means the whole lot goes to land fill.

This is an interesting issue. I fimrly disagree that this should be the sole responsibility of the public, the processors have to take some responsibility.

For me to throw all my recylcable waste into landfill is morally wrong

For a processor to landfill an entire batch of recyclable waste becuase of a 1 in 10,000 contamination is morally wrong on another level.

Because someone else made a mistake, the processors take the 'not my fault' cop out. Instead they should develop systems to cope with the automation of these issues rather than make excuses while pointing the finger at well meaning public.

Currently the public and councils take repsonsibility and the processors take the easiest ride possible to turn a profit for their business. Anything gets in the way of that and they dont care about landfilling tonnes and tonnes with impunity. I find it sickening.

[Kymba]

Just a thought But wont the Black Bin bags we are asked to put our household waste stay in the ground Forever ??????
So thats One thing that needs looking at.. how many of them are put into landfill sites every day!!!!!!!!!

[Tinkerbell]

'And, with regard to charging for the removal of rubbish - there is already a charge made by councils for this service, it's called Council Tax!'

Going back to my point in the second post on this thread - and for the sake of those who quake at the thought of extra costs - are we to expect a rebate on the Council Tax for the waste removal element now charged, or will the new proposals be extra costs to each household? Currently in our two person household we tend to put far less in our wheelie bin than neighbours with several folk in the household. But we pay the same council tax.

Tinkerbell

[Tormentil]

I would suspect that this will be an extra cost, over and above the current council tax.

cynic Smiley

[henrya]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

I would suspect that this will be an extra cost, over and above the current council tax.

cynic Smiley

I think that's probably right. In regard to wheelie bins, you could always try my approach. When the council announced they were introducing grey and blue and green bins I said "Thanks, but no thanks" and after a brief email exchange they said "OK, we'll carry on collecting your rubbish in sacks." And they collect non-recyclable rubbish (mainly ash from the fire) every week (when they don't forget!). Can't guarantee it'll work for everyone but it might be worth trying if you really find the bins a pain.

henrya

[Kymba]

Here are latest comments comming from the goverment on thses proposed charges...

A spokeswoman said the department has paid £5 million to councils to fund 40 pilot schemes, which include waste monitoring.
The LGA has warned council tax bills will have to rise if councils have to pay big EU fines because of poor recycling rates. There was speculation yesterday that families could end up paying up to £100 more each year.

The tax announcement came amid a backlash over the decision by more than 100 councils to halve rubbish collections to once a fortnight.
'Central government should give councils save-as-you-throw powers to help encourage people to take more responsibility for the way they throw their rubbish away.
If save-as-you-throw were introquentduced it would mean a reduction in council tax and a separate charge for waste collection.'
It is not about paying more, it is about paying in a different way. It is also fairer because if you throw out less you pay less.'
Powers to levy a pay-as-you-throw tax would require a new law - but Environment Minister Ben Bradshaw has already said that he supports the plan on the grounds that it would make 'the polluter pay'.

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Originally Posted by Kymba

Environment Minister Ben Bradshaw has already said that he supports the plan on the grounds that it would make 'the polluter pay'.

I think we have already decided that the polluters are the suppliers and packaging companies.

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

'And, with regard to charging for the removal of rubbish - there is already a charge made by councils for this service, it's called Council Tax!'

Going back to my point in the second post on this thread - and for the sake of those who quake at the thought of extra costs - are we to expect a rebate on the Council Tax for the waste removal element now charged, or will the new proposals be extra costs to each household? Currently in our two person household we tend to put far less in our wheelie bin than neighbours with several folk in the household. But we pay the same council tax.

Tinkerbell

This highlights one of the failings of the council tax system. Its a property tax, not a people tax. Yet many of the services it pays for are effected by the number of people in a household, rather than just the value of the property.

[Kymba]

I have a personal example how these charge plans are going to cost the council so much more money because of the extra Fly tipping that will occur.
We have an Alley at the top of the garden that runs the length of the houses...( Council owned) .... We havent been able to use since we moved in over a year ago because of all stuff that has been dumped there ( Furniture, wood, Bags of rubbish etc ) It is even knocking down our fencing because of the amount there, we cant replace this until all the rubbish has been removed!! I have had council out to look at it and photograph it ( last June) and said they will remove it.. But it is going to cost £16000 because of amount there.... After me and several neighbours phoning regularly still nothing has been done,, But more stuff is being dumped all the time so obviously the cost is rising!!

Also as i cant replace my fencing if my two Alsatians manage to get up to the top of garden they will be able to get out.... What if they do and Bite someone or cause an accident.. Who is to Blame?? I have told this to Coucil everytime i phone them.... It hasnt made them get their finger out at all!!

But it is the cost that is the problem for them (so they say)

[henrya]

Originally Posted by Kymba

It is also fairer because if you throw out less you pay less.'
Powers to levy a pay-as-you-throw tax would require a new law - but Environment Minister Ben Bradshaw has already said that he supports the plan on the grounds that it would make 'the polluter pay'.

Yes, but the "throw out less, pay less" is a great incentive to fly-tip, and then the polluter doesn't pay! But maybe when we have CCTV in every street, and GPS in every vehicle, we won't be able to fly-tip unseeen.

henrya

[Billy Wobble Dagger]

Originally Posted by Kymba

I have a personal example how these charge plans are going to cost the council so much more money because of the extra Fly tipping that will occur.
We have an Alley at the top of the garden that runs the length of the houses...( Council owned) .... We havent been able to use since we moved in over a year ago because of all stuff that has been dumped there ( Furniture, wood, Bags of rubbish etc ) It is even knocking down our fencing because of the amount there, we cant replace this until all the rubbish has been removed!! I have had council out to look at it and photograph it ( last June) and said they will remove it.. But it is going to cost £16000 because of amount there.... After me and several neighbours phoning regularly still nothing has been done,, But more stuff is being dumped all the time so obviously the cost is rising!!

Also as i cant replace my fencing if my two Alsatians manage to get up to the top of garden they will be able to get out.... What if they do and Bite someone or cause an accident.. Who is to Blame?? I have told this to Coucil everytime i phone them.... It hasnt made them get their finger out at all!!

But it is the cost that is the problem for them (so they say)

Kymba, You could try speaking to the environmental health people, and see what they say, I don't know if they are connected to the council or if they are a separate organisation. Not much help I know, sorry.

[henrya]

Originally Posted by Billy Wobble Dagger

Kymba, You could try speaking to the enviromental health people, and see what they say, I don't know if they are connected to the council or if they are a seperate organisation. Not much help I know, sorry.

You could also take pictures and send them, with explanation, to

1) your local MP
2) the head of the council (for his/her personal attention)
3) local radio/TV station (commercial and BBC)

making sure they all know who has had copies.

Get the neighbours to do similar (but write separately - the more letters the better).

henrya

[lewisa]

Be aware Kymba that removal of fly tipped waste is the responsibility of the land owner, so if the situation gets worse and your fence collapses and waste then lands in your garden, in the eyes of the law you could be held partly responsible for its removal.

I hope you can get it sorted before it gets worse.

[Kymba]

I have just been on the phone to the Council (again) But this time i wasnt so polite and threatened to contact enviromental health, press and radio and tv It turns out that it was first looked at last April!!!!! and since then the contractors and Council Warden have been arguing over everything.. The lady i spoke to was going to make a phone call to find out what is going on and why it hasnt been done and phone me back hopefully this afternoon.. If not i will be on the phone again Monday....
But this is one of the problems they will face once they start charging us for our Household rubbish...

Sub Note... This week i made an even more conscious and stricter effort with my recycling and managed to get my household waste down to just one half full Black bag <recycled black bag>

[Kymba]

Council phoned back they are comming out <again> Monday to look at the Alley.. have told them to make sure they come and talk to me at same time.... Nxt door saw 3 rats out there earlier in week!! so defo a health issue now to.....

Think i will talk to my reporter friend from local paper nxt week to do an Article on this whole issue

[Susie]

Good for you, Kymba! Get the press involved and also your local ward Councillors. If you don't know who they are then look on your Council's website and they should be listed.

Once you get this problem sorted then it might be an idea to get the alley way gated off to stop it from happening again. If you have a resident's association in your area then they may be able to apply for a grant to have this sort of work done.

[Kymba]

A gate wont help as a lot of the rubbish comes from the street above ours that tend to throw their rubbish over their fences and bank down into the Alley..

Sorry this has become about me

But my reason for mentioning this was the fact of the major problems we will get both from Rats, pollution health hazzards and contamination we will all face when these Charges become reality, and the problems we will face because of the cost of removing all the things that are dumped because of Fly tipping. So no matter how much we recycle or only buy things with